Help! I have a gender non-conforming DS, and feel like the rubber is hitting the road.

[WankmasterBastardDeLaShithead]

DS (10) has been "gender non-conforming" since he was a toddler, and able to choose clothes and toys. We've generally just let him get on with it, not making a big deal about it, and letting him know that it's fine to be a boy and wear a dress/play with dolls etc. He's navigated his own way through all sorts of situations with ingenuity, and grim determination .

Anyway as he's getting older we're encountering more and more tricky situations. Toilets have been a sticking point, although we've mostly got round that by encouraging him to use "neutral" loos where possible. The school organised a meeting for us to discuss this, after an incident where he wet himself (after feeling uncomfortable/unwelcome in the boys' loos, but discouraged by me to use the girls' loos). He now uses the neutral loos at school.

Today though, I've come up against two dilemmas to do with sex /gender identity, and I'm just not sure what position to take. Firstly he goes to gymnastics in a mixed class. His teacher spoke up me after the class, referring to him as 'she' and taking about putting him forward to a (sex segregated) competition at some point in the future. I had registered him for the classes as a boy (obviously), but haven't had an explicit conversation about his gender. He does look "girly" (longish hair) so I completely understand why they're mistaken. I didn't correct the teacher in the moment, as it was in public and this is one thing (correcting people on his gender) that DS finds embarrassing. He doesn't mind being called he or she, but he does mind any "fuss" about it.

I then got home to find an email from his school about an initiative aimed at encouraging girls' confidence, and his teacher feels that he would like to do it. Argh. It's well-meaning, and I know comes from an understanding that his friends are nearly all girls, he looks like a girl, and he will feel left out if he isn't included. Obviously I'm very uncomfortable about this, but my heart is also aching for DS, because this will probably be difficult for him.

Basically if there wasn't such weird gender stereotyping in our society, I'm pretty sure DS would be happily rocking out as a girly boy, but because there is, he's being made to feel that to do the things he likes doing, he has to "be" a girl. It's so shit.

Anyway, I just feel so stuck as to how to do the right thing by DS. Any advice?

Or, perhaps, your son is instructing adults to refer to him as a girl, and hasn't told you that.

Would explain the instructor looking at you strangely and using female pronouns anyway.

It could be a bad thing if it now, aged 10, is causing such confusion and anxiety in a child yes.

I’ve never dictated to any of my dc’s what they can play with etc. I just wonder whether people make an actual mental decision of “my children shall be non gender-conforming” is what happens. Presumably the child didn’t make this choice aged 2? ie this is not something the child initiates but is pushed on them by the parent. My own ds liked wearing princess dresses for a short time aged 2 but it would never occur to me to say “oh, he’s gender non-conforming”! Why the labels?

Do young male and female gymnasts compete against each other in competitions? Is his name easily mistaken as a girls?

I know a few children who could be mistaken and I was a few times as a child but it tends to be corrected with no big deal.

Re: him being "gender non-conforming" since he was a toddler: he has an older brother and sister, and so had access to a range of "boy" and "girl" toys and clothes. He loved the "girly" stuff, and I saw no reason to discourage him. If he hadn't been "challenged" on his gender on a regular basis by other people, I don't think he'd have any confusion or embarrassment about his preferences.

my son often was called 'she' when he was around that age and had longer hair. So yes, I can believe it. I also had people ignore me telling them, or even HIM telling them. We just assumed they were stupid.

He had moments of wearing a dress when younger, but mainly when pre-school and going to a party, because the dress fitted the character he wanted to go as (a period of wanting to be a witch, so took his sisters witch outfits)

He has quite fine features so pre-pubescent and slim and long hair I can see the mistake (although he was wearing boys trousers and shoes)

He just learned to find it funny. He did correct people. He realised people make a cursory glance and base it on stereotypes and its good to correct them and make them think a bit harder that not everyone fits the box

He did have the experience of some kids who did parkour with him absolutely INSISTING he was a girl. My friends 8 year old is also going through this. all seems to be based on hair length.

Its completely nuts. Its like nobody has ever seen a man with long hair

And yes, I can imagine that from the outside it doesn't seem like a big deal to correct people on your sex when they get it wrong, but the reality of living through that on a very regular basis that is quite different. I have spent years calmly correcting people on his sex, and it's only in the last couple of years that he's started to find it embarrassing. I've respected his feelings about this, and mostly just let it slide (eg when it's just a passing encounter).

as far as I know they haven't started doing different activities yet

OP, does the gym teacher not know he's male, or do they think he's trans?

I ask as if they think DS is female, he could get into potentially dangerous/painful situations if he's doing activities designed for female bodies (i'm thinking falling from a balance beam, etc). That said, I'm not an expert so perhaps there's no difference nowadays (and I appreciate the same fall can be painful for women too).

Is there any possibility that DS has told people he's a girl but doesn't want to tell you?

From what I've read your child hasn't said he's a girl, to you or anybody else, because he isn't and he isn't trying to self identify. You haven't registered him as a girl at any organisation, school or gym club, because he's a boy. Neither you nor he have asked for him to be called she. You haven't asked the school to include him in female single sex classes.

Other adults are referring to him as she, and assuming he may want to attend an all female group. Some of these adults are insisting on saying she even when you, his mother, tell them that he's male.

It's insane. Where I work a new pupil started, unusual name which could have been either gender. I couldn't decide whether they were a boy or a girl. The teacher said "she" when handing them something, the class giggled and he said I'm a boy. She apologised, and said you have such beautiful hair (long blonde) and that was it, over. He has a very feminine face, and now has shorter hair, and I think it would be clear to most people he's male.

OP, I think you should just operate in the world as we used to, before this rush to push young children into categories such as non-binary. He's a boy, he'll grow into a man. He may look feminine, and appear to others to have stereotypical female traits, but that doesn't change biological reality. So if you say he's a boy, and they continue with she, then surely the response is no, I just said he's a boy, why are you referring to my son as she?

Your son isn't a trail blazer, he sounds like a boy with some traits most people would ascribe to females, which is fine. Let him be a feminine male, not a project for woke teachers and gym instructors.

OP If someone persisted in using “she” after they had been corrected, I would politely ask them why, and point out the sexism.
I worry about children in this climate, where liking things not deemed correct for their sex gets them labelled trans. I would do everything I could to avoid well meaning but completely misguided people nudging him down this road.

And yet there was a thread deleted just this afternoon from a mum whose 6 year old boy wants to wear a dress

No I read that thread, part of it anyway and people were advising that mum not to send her SIX year old to school in a dress.

You say his hair is long and he does look girly. Can he get his hair cut to look more boyish, still long, but in a more masculine way. Then maybe his gender will stop being confused. He can still be gender non- conformist, but will be less confusing to others.

Okmaybenot - yes, I suppose that's possible, although we have had chats about how he's feeling about it etc, and the way that he describes it to me is that he really doesn't mind if people use he or she, but he doesn't like it when there's any fuss about it.

Its fine to have long hair as a boy and its annoying to correct others BUT its better to do that than let them think he is a girl, because he isnt.
He has a choice - if he wants to be independant enough to make his choices, then he needs to be able to calmly correct people.
and just accept that most people are pretty ignorant and will make assumptions.
If its embarrassing then what are his options? Conform to stop the embarrasment? Correct people? Or face a more embarrassing situation when people carry on saying 'she' and it becomes untenable. Or allowing other people to dictate that he is, in fact, a girl.
If you want to be different then you need the courage of your convictions. It would be great if he didnt have to assert his sex, but sadly thats not the world we live in.
And allowing him to be subtly led down the path of thinking he may be female is cruel. He is a boy. A lovely boy who happens to have long hair. You need to nip this in the bud and he needs to decide whats going to happen because it will get worse, 100x worse, once he starts secondary school and there are 1200 kids calling him a girl

No I read that thread, part of it anyway and people were advising that mum not to send her SIX year old to school in a dress.

Yes, that's right, and my response was to a poster who said on this thread that children should be able to be a feminine boy or a masculine girl. That deleted thread though showed that lots of people don't share that view and that boys are expected to conform to gender norms and stereotypes.

If I had a boy who liked to dress like a girl and hang around with girls, I would encourage him to be HIM. Be just that.... A boy with 'girls interests' as well as boys '. Good for him to learn to stand up for himself early. Don't try to make him lean towards being called she. He can do that if he wants when he's an adult.
Background information on myself..... Girl desperate to be a boy from age 3. People would ask what I want to be when I grew up to which I would reply 'a man'. Loved to dress as a boy and would rather die than play girls games. Parents didn't make a fuss....i was just a tomboy. Well thank the lord I was not told I actually could use boys loos etc and labelled a 'he'. That would have been really confusing later on. I'm now a happy mum of 3 not at all interested in being a man!

He can be whatever he wants to be as a boy. He'll be going through puberty soon and look more obviously male. He can express himself but still be male.
Sorry but he's not a girl or a woman.

Regressive thinking on part of society that isnt allowing variety of personality and look in either boys or girls.
Teachers are either mistaken, - easily done - pre pubescent children aren't easily identified into gender by face or height or build.
Or worse - teachers trying to be woke.

DS had a masculine name, but goes by a reasonably "neutral" shortening.

He still has the masculine name surely?

OP I mean this kindly - do you think in your quest to be supportive of him that you are encouraging him to remain on the path he started on when he was a toddler? I’m asking because you stated earlier that he is getting embarrassed by the confusion about his gender.

I don't think he'd have any confusion or embarrassment about his preferences.

This subject is one I’m familiar with and I think we, as parents, sometimes need to press pause and look at ourselves honestly too.

Standrewschool - he really, really wants long(ish) hair. We've discussed how this means that's people are more likely to mistake him for a girl, and he's been undeterred. I'm not willing to insist that he had shorter hair to fit in more with a gender stereotype. I guess I want to cultivate an understanding that he can do whatever he wants with his hair and clothes while being a boy. The alternative (discouraging him from dresses, long hair etc) isn't going to quash his preferences, it's just going to give him the message that being a boy precludes him from doing the things he enjoys, and I fear that is a route to body dysmorphia.

My DS has long hair and often got mistaken for a girl in pre- and early puberty (especially when he was with his sisters as they all had long hair).

He made it very clear that he was a boy to everyone who said 'oh what lovely girls' from quite a young age (admittedly this was before the current climate).

I agree with PPs that the best thing is to keep correcting people as your silence on the issue will be taken as confirmation that he identifies as a girl - they'll be taking a stab in the dark with a 50/50 chance of getting it right and when you don't correct them, will think 'thank god I went with 'she''. If you don't correct people's mistake, he will be put in girls' spaces/initiatives as a result.

People, especially women, might also be scared of referring to a GNC male-bodied person as 'he' nowadays for fear of being labelled a bigot.

Telling people that you are a boy & want to be referred to as he isn't making a fuss!

I'm guessing your son isn't correcting people when they assume he is a girl? Instead of correcting she when people use it, I'd say "W junior is a boy, please use term he".

Pattiprice, I'm not sure what you mean? I haven't pushed or encouraged anything, I just haven't actively discouraged anything (providing it's not hurting anyone etc).

I'd also encourage ds to say it. If he chooses to be gender neutral and/or wear dresses then he needs to be self assured enough to correct people by saying he is a boy.

Can he get his hair cut to look more boyish, still long, but in a more masculine way. Then maybe his gender will stop being confused.

How would reinforcing gender stereotypes help here?

It's people's rigid views of gender stereotypes that's the problem in the first place!

The toilet issue would have me more concerned. Is it bullying that he is afraid to use the boys toilet? That should be stamped on straight away. Your ds at age 10 shouldn't feel forced to use gender neutral toilets because he is afraid of boys toilets