Being parent to the naughty kid

[theworstwife]

My DS is the naughty kid in his new reception class, he’s the only one put on the clouds. In preschool he was the only one with a sticker chart. This week a little girl pointed at him in the queue for class and said that’s the naughty boy - everyone looked at us like we had the plague.

He’s a kind, empathic, fun child but he can’t sit still or stop making noises and he struggles with transitions from one task to another. I am constantly trying to help him but it’s so difficult to get him to listen. I don’t think he has ADHD or anything like that but he just can’t control himself sometimes. He was on the clouds again today (no one else is ever on them) for making silly noises at group time. He was trying to be good so he could go to soft play this weekend. I was so frustrated with him and disappointed that i have probably been more punative than I should have been. I don’t shout or loose control but I have told him how cross and at a loss I am which I now wish I hadn’t.

I find it so hard having the naughty child - I feel everyone assumes it’s our poor parenting but I genuinely don’t think it is. I hate not doing things by the book and myself was a v disciplined and quiet child so I’m finding him so hard. My DH is great with him but it’s me that is dealing with school as I’m on mat leave. I really don’t want him to be labelled the disruptive child that everyone wants to avoid. I don’t know what to do next. I am meeting with his teacher in November so hopefully she can give me a clearer picture of how far outside the norm his behaviour is. I guess we could see an educational psychologist or something privately but I don’t know if that’s OTT. Any other naughty kid parents with advice?

Why are you waiting till November? Meet with the teacher now, then see your GP if you and the teacher are concerned.

Go see someone now at the school.

Don't punish him at home as well. He's only little. He's already being punished at school.

'he can’t sit still or stop making noises and he struggles with transitions from one task to another.'

That sounds similar to my child, especially the transitions bit. Mine does have ADHD. I was concerned from age 5/6 but it was only diagnosed aged around 9. In my experience you have to really start asking for help from the GP/teacher/anyone else.

When you talk to the teacher ask for specific examples of behaviour that is a problem. If there are lots then chosse two to work on. Then agree with the teacher that you will check in once a week/day/two days - whatever seems appropriate so that they can let you know how those behaviours have been that day. Let your son know you are doing this.

Be really specific to everyone about the behaviour which is a problem.

If you want to see a GP be aware that the GP may well suggest parenting classes before any sort of pathway to any diagnosis. Don't knock them if you are offered some. We paid privately for some as we couldn't do the hours we were offered by the NHS and found them very helpful in changing the way we manage certain situations.

I have spoken to his teacher - she wanted him to complete half a term to see if he improved when he had settled a bit. So I’m meeting her at the start of November. To be fair as a doctor myself I don’t think the GP would be much use and any referrals would take ages - I would rather bypass that system. I know I shouldn’t punish him again but I find it so frustrating - he doesn’t give a shit he’s in the cloud so that ‘punishment’ is futile

Thanks @BBCBias001 I would have no issue doing parenting classes - all help appreciated! I just don’t think his behaviour is extreme enough for ADHD but I could be wrong.

My son was labelled the naughty child, it used to break my heart. It was awful to hear people say. We don't use that term in our house at all now, to me it like calling someone horrible or stupid. My son does have ADHD, it took me seven years to get a diagnosis and it's the best thing we could have done for him.

Some children just need more time to settle in and learn about how things work. They need stronger boundaries and more relatable rewards i.e at the end of each day instead of the end of the week ect ect.

I really hope you both get the support you need. Try not to think of him as "the naughty kid".... No one else would say they have the fat kid

@coffeetofunction if you don’t mind me asking how did your son get diagnosed and how was his behaviour? Was he ‘in trouble’ every day at school or was he sometimes ok? Some days my DS seems to do ok. He does as he’s told at home most of the time, he will constantly walk around and talk non stop (I thought fairly normal for 4/5 year old). He goes to sleep ok at 7ish and wakes about 6am. He’s v v affectionate wanting constant physical contact with hugs etc (another difficulty at school)

This was me 7 years ago. In reception and pre school my child was branded the naughty kid, We were also politley asked to leave and never return to a local soft play centre. I heard parents telling their child not to play with my child and he was never invited on any play dates. He hit other children , he threw toys he cried when ever anything went wrong and was constantly on the thunder cloud. BUT the day he started year one everything changed and only once from year 1 to year 6 was he on the cloud. He was house captain and head ambassador in year 6 and now in his first year of secondary has been doing tours with prospective students. He is autistic and was diagnosed at 8. He needs structure in his world to cope so as soon as he was in a formal setting ie now we are doing english, now maths etc he thrived. He couldn't cope with free play. He absolutely loves school and has done everyday since year 1. So maybe your boy is the same, reception is so unstructured the children don't really know what is expected of them and there is not much stimulation. Most children struggle with the huge transition from reception to year 1 but my son was the opposite. It was an outside visitor from another agency working within the school who noticed his need for structure and his behavior was due to not being able to cope with the chaoticness of a reception classroom!!

All behaviour is communication, he's telling you in the only way he knows how that he cannot do what people are asking him to do all of the time.

This is a different approach to "naughty" kids, it may help.
www.livesinthebalance.org/

Clouds is a shit system that no decent teacher should be using (I have a close relative who's a head, and had told me this previously); it's negative rather than positive reinforcement, and you can tell that from the fact that other kids are already calling your son naughty.

Instead of just putting him on the cloud, they should be thinking about how they support him if he gets fidgety (eg giving him a little job to do so he can move around). They could also be doing positive reinforcement specifically for him - so, eg, between 1 to 3 tokens for every session (1 if it's not gone so well, through to 3 for great behaviour), small jar so it fills quickly, then a little treat like golden time activity when jar filled.

My son had treatment like this at nursery stage, and his confidence was rock bottom by the time he started reception. He's now 9 and is only just starting to feel less anxious in school. He doesn't even have ADHD - he just got more and more fidgety the more anxious and pressured he felt.

Make sure school start dealing with this is a more proactive and positive manner, and view it as a practical problem rather than feeling ashamed; my shame meant it took me a really long to see how best my child could be supported (and I'd been fucking perfect as a child myself, so had a similar response to yours).

Don't bring any punishments home, don't be cross with him (but you can have a chat and ask him if he was finding it difficult to sit quietly or whatever). And ask them to stop with the clouds system - it's outdated and will just make him feel worse and worse.

What month is your child's birthday ? My DS is the same but still in preschool. I don't think he's naughty, but I have been told it's behavioural. He lacks concentration. I do understand the concerns, but they are small children not robots. It's hard though when they are being singled out and compared with others.

The thing is I've watched some children at story time and they sit there like zombies, certainly not all engaged just still, not even looking at the reader. They have been trained and are more compliant than my DS ( whilst my DS messes about and fidgets.) If your DS' behaviour is that type of thing rather than kicking or hitting then I think it will come in time.

I'm reading a book that says you should sit down and look at the problems together and both suggest solutions. Like what would help you keep quiet during the story. You suggest then they suggest and you write everything down, even silly stuff down. Then you read through the options and you say well that won't work, what else do we have. They don't have to be able to read. I've not tried this, but did ask my child what would help him on something. He thought and looked puzzled, so I think the suggestions bit is to inspire them to think. Anyone the book is very American and a little contrived in parts, but is how to talk so kids will listen.

I've experienced some council or family support service courses and they are very basic and drawn out, but the content is fine. I felt a bit like they spoke to you like you have one brain cell, but it's not the course givers looking down on you at all, it's the actual content. I've not down behaviour, maybe I should. Depends on your area, if you have sure start speak to them, we don't have that in my area.

He’s v v affectionate wanting constant physical contact with hugs etc

That's sensory seeking behaviour.
www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/social-care/disabilities/docs/young-people/Making%20Sense%20of%20Sensory%20Behaviour.pdf?v=201507131117

He sounds a lot like my DS at that age! We had a truly terrible Reception teacher who went along with the ‘naughty child’ label as much as everyone else. Luckily we had to change schools for other reasons after Reception and his new year 1 teacher took just two weeks of term to come up with a better view. Rather than telling him off every day and humiliating me at every pick up like the previous teacher, she showed understanding and compassion and suggested techniques to help him sit and listen, help him concentrate, help him write his letters ... and she encouraged us to go for a private OT assessment.

Long story short ... I’m so grateful we were able to do it, it was the first step to helping my son (and me) start to enjoy his time at school.

I hope your teacher helps you as much as our lovely yr 1 teacher did. I will always love her!

I think by singing to himself when he should be listening he’s communicating ‘I don’t give a shit about this story’. He just wants to do what he wants to do. I don’t think he would want more structure or that he needs challenging. He just doesn’t care what the teacher says or what anyone other than me thinks

He isn’t aggressive, never has been

OP, I know you're frustrated and feel a bit ashamed, but that last post is unfair to him. He's still very little indeed - he may well be communicating that he feels overwhelmed or anxious, but I'm sure it's not that he doesn't care what the teacher says or thinks - you're attributing a naughtiness to it that's not really there. I really recommend stepping away from your own feelings and childhood and dealing with it from his perspective; you're the only advocate he's got. I know that's easier said than done.

^^ and listen to what countryplumpkin said - good teaching techniques can make a big difference.

@lookingfortreasure he’s born in October so quite old for his class. I have that book unread somewhere - I will fish it out and try that with him. @lookingfortreasureabsolutely right - he is singled out for the whole class to see. I don’t know how receptive the teacher would be to abolishing the system though - it’s used throughout the school. @CountryPlumpkin the teacher does seem quite happy to have him as the naughty kid. I am hoping we can have more rapport at this meeting as I find her rigid and fairly unhelpful at the minute

Sorry second msg was for @JeanMichelBisquiat

@CountryPlumpkin how was the OT assessment? What sorts of things did they suggest?

OP I am also a doctor - I work in mental health. I really think you should consider a neurodevelopmental assessment. Teachers and other children are very aware - if they notice something is ‘different’ then they are usually right. To be honest it sounds to me like ADHD or ASD. Really most children at this age do give a shit. My eldest has struggled all through primary school- she’s 13 now and we’re looking at assessment for ASD and I sometimes do wish I’d been more proactive sooner.

@JeanMichelBisquiat I know I am harsh - it is unfortunately how I am. I am really trying to not get frustrated and not almost take it personally as I know I am a perfectionist and struggle to understand why he can’t just do as he’s told. I do try and talk to him about things and how he’s feeling but he just asks me about my favourite transformer or something. I also feel for him as all the little girls in his class now call him naughty

It sounds very frustrating. How is he with communicating his mental states? Do you vocalise and acknowledge with him when he feels angry or happy or annoyed or interested? Helping him vocalise and identify how he is feeling might help his with his communication and behaviour. Agree the clouds system is shite.

@Bigbus yes I think that is probably for the best really. I think I have been thinking it will get better but it isn’t. He doesn’t seem to care what the teacher says.

@littlejalapeno I have done that - saying I think you feel cross/frustrated etc. To be fair he doesn’t get frustrated so much at school as he did at preschool it’s more fidgety, oblivious to expectations. What I think is odd is his behaviour is generally better at home which seems different from most children. The main issue at home is wanting constant interaction (again I thought fairly normal for his age). He had a new little sister 6 months ago - he is brilliant with her and this doesn’t outwardly seem to have affected his behaviour