Being parent to the naughty kid

[theworstwife]

My DS is the naughty kid in his new reception class, he’s the only one put on the clouds. In preschool he was the only one with a sticker chart. This week a little girl pointed at him in the queue for class and said that’s the naughty boy - everyone looked at us like we had the plague.

He’s a kind, empathic, fun child but he can’t sit still or stop making noises and he struggles with transitions from one task to another. I am constantly trying to help him but it’s so difficult to get him to listen. I don’t think he has ADHD or anything like that but he just can’t control himself sometimes. He was on the clouds again today (no one else is ever on them) for making silly noises at group time. He was trying to be good so he could go to soft play this weekend. I was so frustrated with him and disappointed that i have probably been more punative than I should have been. I don’t shout or loose control but I have told him how cross and at a loss I am which I now wish I hadn’t.

I find it so hard having the naughty child - I feel everyone assumes it’s our poor parenting but I genuinely don’t think it is. I hate not doing things by the book and myself was a v disciplined and quiet child so I’m finding him so hard. My DH is great with him but it’s me that is dealing with school as I’m on mat leave. I really don’t want him to be labelled the disruptive child that everyone wants to avoid. I don’t know what to do next. I am meeting with his teacher in November so hopefully she can give me a clearer picture of how far outside the norm his behaviour is. I guess we could see an educational psychologist or something privately but I don’t know if that’s OTT. Any other naughty kid parents with advice?

And generally doesn’t care what others think - he ploughs his own furrow most of the time. He does like to play with others - has some nice friends from preschool and seems to have made 1 or 2 friends (in other classes though) at school

Some really good advice on this thread, OP. Wanted to add that I have come across many poor SENCOs, especially in primary where there is no requirement for them to be a specialist, just a bit of training and an immense workload - of course there are also brilliant ones but they often reflect the ethos of the school and yours has that cloud system ... So they may not be the answer for everything. I understand that if they make the referral the child is assessed more quickly. I filled in the school referral forms and went through them with our SENCO as I knew she didn't have a good understanding of my child. OT assessment for us was v helpful and thorough though very sensory specific. Neurodevelopmental 'issues' have lots of cross over - check out understood.com - I find it really useful. Also, try the firm therapy putty (don't get the soft gloop) for times he has to be still as it really helps concentration. Chew tags also great. NSA is a good brand and available on Amazon.

The cloud/sun system is awful. It is labelling and I believe our school stopped using it. I would call this up with the teacher and then the head. It is doing your son no favours!

My son was the naughty kid. When he was 13 he was finally diagnosed with ASD/ADHD. He also has emotional deregulation. He is in a special needs school now, we don't know if he'll sit his GCSEs as his anxiety is so high. He only leaves the house to go to school. I know it's a worst case situation but if I can offer any advice at all I'd say to get help ASAP. There are no 'naughty kids', there's ALWAYS a reason for the behaviour. Xxx

This is hard, OP. You’ve got a baby and a DS struggling at school.

What comes across in your posts is that you care very much what other people think - the other mums, the teachers, the TAs. I have two children with special needs and it got easier when I decided not to care what other people thought.

No one is in your shoes or your DS’s shoes so what they think doesn’t matter. They don’t have all the information that you do.

Read books about sensory-seeking children. Get an OT to assess your DS. From that, you will be able to decide next steps.

Don’t wait. Decide to be your son’s advocate and his shield. You think he’s great - it comes across in your posts. Stop caring what people who decide to see the worst in him think.

My DS is like this. I have a GP appointment to request referral to OT/paediatrician for a neurodevelopmental assessment. I'm fortunate in that our school SENCo has been really helpful and is also referring DS back to CAMHS (he was assessed by them a couple of years ago and we were told he was fine - I strongly disagreed). This has been an issue for DH as he also disagreed with me at the time. As DS has gotten older and we have learnt a bit about Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD) this describes my DS so accurately. He has also been seeing a counsellor due to issues in previous school year and she has stated he has an underlying neurological disorder. I suspect Aspergers.

I absolutely do not want to excuse any of DS' behavior as sometimes he can just be a 9-year old and needs to learn boundaries etc but if there is a problem (which I strongly suspect there is) then he needs the support in place to help him. We are starting to look at secondary schools and for me the school's pastoral care is just as important as their education standards

whenever I ask him why he wasn’t doing what he was supposed to he always says he didn’t want to, I wanted to do something else etc.

This is because he has no understanding that he should be doing what the teacher wants. He does respect you and not want to disappoint you - but the teacher...
This is a lack of understanding social mores.

This school might not be the right one for him - 20 children who get social rules etc. conform; but they aren't able to deal with the 1 child who doesn't conform.

A lot of what you have described sounds like ASD to me, and ASD is often associated with Epilepsy. I would read around the subject whilst trying to get a diagnosis for your son.

My DD (ASD diagnosis) also uses some words a lot more than "strictly necessary" - so often says she is bored (just means she is lacking stimulation), or accuse people of "bullying" her (which just means being a bit mean). She couldn't describe her emotions and got very upset if asked about them. And often couldn't really describe why she did something. AND all of this despite apparently very advanced language skills, using very advanced vocabulary.

Just read the thread back in more detail, and seen that your DS has problems with writing and is left handed. My DS also has problems with writing and drawing, he's also a leftie. School have suggested physiotherapy for fine motor skills, as the problem lies in the way he holds a pencil, apparently his brain trained his muscles to fo this and he can be trained out of it with exercises. His teacher's own daughter had the same problem and found that physio really helped.

No hugs? That’s really sad and tbh says a lot about the school’s attitude generally. DD1 and DD2 both hugged their reception teachers a lot and DD1 is still doing it age nearly 7. Like a PP I have had to tell her to ask first.

I would suggest a two pronged approach:

1. talk to the Senco and your GP about routes to assessment, ed psych or developmental paediatrian. This will be slow though. Seeing an OT may be quicker, they won’t diagnose but will give you some indications of what he finds hard and how to help.
2. talk to the teacher about things to try in the classroom to help him. For example a fidget toy, wobble cushion, being sat nearer the front so he’s not distracted. Ask about positive feedback, what ideas do they have for praise and positive reinforcement for DC who aren’t bothered about stickers? Also ask if hugs can be allowed if initiated by DC. If the teacher is not open to discussing and trying some different ideas then frankly I’d be asking to change classes.

My DD at 16 still needs a lot of hugs - she mainly gets them from me or her big brother - or sometimes from friends at school. It could be needing the weight/pressure partly. (It makes me think of the work of Temple Grandin).

I'm a teacher
I fecking hate those charts

I probably do care what others think as I was so bothered about pleasing people myself. I don’t get how he doesn’t care. I will make an appointment with the GP - they are good but 6 weeks wait as they are so swamped

Don’t wait. Decide to be your son’s advocate and his shield. You think he’s great - it comes across in your posts. Stop caring what people who decide to see the worst in him think.

This is spot on. He’s a fab little guy with so much potential. Go out to bat for him. Don’t be put off. Talk to people. Be open, don’t feel ashamed, there is nothing to be ashamed of. He’s wonderful and amazing just the way he is!

My DDs are in year 4 and honestly the dc they called "naughty" in reception are much better now and only 3 have continued but for very obvious reasons - 1 autism and 1 family situation/chaotic home life the other was adopted and there are challenges there. Reception is so little and the first term is really early. He's settling in and sometimes it takes time. My dtds have always settled and adapted with ease but suddenly in year 4 both are really struggling. He's been at school for a few weeks. Although dtds settled well in reception as far as the teacher was concerned I think they'd have been shocked at the evening tears and tantrums.

I'd make lots of of time in the evenings to talk about his day. Tell me 3 things from your day, 2 good, 1 bad. Ask him how he could have done things differently and get him thinking about what he can control. Open up communication and show you're listening. He's had a big change in his little life and he needs to know it's okay to have big feelings.

It's worth a try. Dd3 doesn't give a crap about being told off so I do this and it's so much nicer than losing my shit (I do do that sometimes).

I think the problem with ADHD is that it is commonly associated with naughty or bad behaviour, probably because the child was not referred or diagnosed until after their behaviour had deteriorated while they struggled to cope. Hence the assumption that he is not bad enough to have ADHD. Not everyone with ADHD is naughty.

Also not wanting a child to have this label only results in them having another label, that of the naughty boy.

Look at sensory processing disorder. A child making noises can be drowning out the outside noise that he can not process. I do similar in a busy office I listen to music on my head phones. One noise is easier than a mixture.

Needing hugs, some sensory behaviour is a need to have touch hence standing to close to others, touching them, cuddling them, sometimes tightly, piling into the tumble of boys in the playground to feel the contact. I sleep better under a heavy blanket.

If he cannot sit still can he stand, eg some children fidget sitting at the dinner table but not if they stand, same at a desk or they will lie on the floor to watch TV. How is his spacial awareness?

Open your mind and don't compare him to yourself, he will soon learn that he can never do anything right in your eyes or at school. I would pay for an OT assessment unless your GP can do it quickly. They can offer strategies and equipment.

I'm sure as a Doctor you know where to find reliable research. However I found this article interesting.

www.janetlansbury.com/2013/09/recognizing-sensory-processing-disorders-spd-guest-post-by-jonathan-evans/

That’s part that surprises me really as he’s never had a tantrum, he doesn’t loose his shit at home - he wants a lot of attention but has coped with having a new sibling really well. He had no worries starting school and all criticism seems to not bother him at all. I always think of it like he has a mental itch which he can’t help scratching with these noises, fidgeting etc

I don’t think you have to have a tantrum with SPD. In fact, as you know, no one has to have every symptom to be diagnosed and the absence of any symptom doesn’t mean the condition doesn’t exist.

Perhaps his mental itch is sensory processing.

Or I should say the struggle to process sensory information may feel like a mental itch that one can’t quite scratch.

DS2 has never had a trantrum but he did start to have meltdowns as the chronic stress took its toll.

In KS1 he was 'fine' - he was a free spirit and the constant telling off was water off a duck's back.

In KS2 he became increasingly anxious. Whereas EP observation used to be that he appeared not to give a toss, now the reports detailed how he didn't dare get out of his chair or request a tissue despite obvious need.

He was signed off for stress in year 6. He is now at internet school and is now thriving. It was hard work as I had to be his f/t TA for couple of years but now his token reward scheme has been successfully phased out and his independent working and engagement are good enough. He can study at his own pace - he is taking IGCSE maths in May although chronologically year 9 because he already achieves 90%+ on the extended curriculum.

I’m so glad your DS is now doing well @KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain - it sounds like it has been really stressful for you both. I will look into everything mentioned - thank you all for your input.

DS1 was referred to a behavioural optometrist on the NHS (CPOC clinic in Colchester). He also had retained reflexes. TBH I wish I had listened to the audiologist that said that auditory processing difficulties was just a fancy way of saying that he was autistic. It just led to delay of diagnosis.

Mental health is key. You find it hard to be the parent for the 5 minutes of pick up - imagine the stress of being the child thought to be 'naughty' for 5+ hours a day, 5 days a week. This stress is still damaging even if your DC does not seem to care. I know it is hard to see when DC are 5.

Being autistic or having ADHD per se is not the problem. Fitting in to m/s school (as currently configured) is. But as I'm not raising my son to live in that kind of rule bound, institutional environment as an adult, I'm afraid I can't see the advantage of explicit teaching of survival in a temporary environment that won't be encountered as an adult.

@KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain

What is your DS diagnosis?

DS1 went to m/s primary. He was selectively mute from 6 but his school just thought he was quiet. His year 2 teacher suggested CPOC because of problems reading and writing. He was assessed and found to have multiple issues with tracking, convergence etc and also had 3 retained reflexes. He did years of exercises. Problems at school became worse and worse, his anxiety increased and academic progress halted at level 3 (his KS1 SATS level).

School head swore DS1 wasn't dyslexic, the EP didn't assess and said even if he were, he would need to be 6 years behind to qualify for support (bollocks btw).

We ended up paying privately for EP, SALT, OT and neurodevelopmental paediatrician. The LA only carried out assessment for Tribunal when he failed secondary transition and was out of school for 8 months of year 7. He has a primary diagnosis of ASD with co-morbids of auditory processing disorder, inattentive ADHD, sensory processing disorder, anxiety disorder, dyslexia and dsycalculia. When very stressed he has motor and verbal tics. He only lasted til year 9 in an indi specialist school. He had developed a severe school phobia due to his experiences and never returned.

DS2 had speech delay so was on the radar from 2.5. Because of his articulation issues all assessments were requested by NHS (SALT referred him to comm paed) or school due to not following instructions, disrupting others, insisting (often through passive resistance, ignoring) on ploughing his own furrow. Diagnosis took longer as local docs could not decide between ASD and ADHD and he was referred to GOSH for 2nd opinion. He has a diagnosis of ASD, ADHD, dyslexia (but on the 98th percentile) and anxiety. We also paid privately for sensory integration OT as he has obvious sensory and dyspraxia issues and he has an SPD diagnosis. He is now 13 and since starting internet school at 20, his anxiety has massively reduced and he has gone from under achieving to achieving highly in GCSE classes.

My DS2 was also a ‘naughty’ boy although there was a group of about 6 of them so he wasn’t singled out! In reception until year 2 they just wanted to be outside playing etc and wouldn’t sit and concentrate in class, they did lots of play fighting etc and were always getting in trouble.
Then he started juniors in year 3, it was like a changed boy. I honestly think some children - mainly boys - aren’t ready to sit and learn at the age of 4.

I knew it wasn’t parenting (and so did the school) as I have 2 older children who were completely different including DS1 who is HF ASD

I'm the mother of the Child who won't speak much and isn't getting involved. She has a chart now so she learns to move onto different activities otherwise she would be at the art table all day.

She then comes home and takes her moods out on me. I'm so sad she won't show the teacher how smart she is. They could not believe it when I said she's fine out of school, happy, bossy and full of imagination. She just shuts down in social situations

Theres far too much pressure on our little four and five year olds. Barely out of nappies and out a pushchair and they are expected to be like little perfect robots. They don't want them loud and silly, they are concerned if they are silent or not getting involved.

As parents we have so much pressure on us having to worry about them getting the perfect balance. My DD already has senco helping her. I dunno it's all just abit upsetting as parents isn't it. Your little boy is just happy and full of energy. I wish my little girl was a little more like that.

Bless him he sounds lovely xx