Being parent to the naughty kid

[theworstwife]

My DS is the naughty kid in his new reception class, he’s the only one put on the clouds. In preschool he was the only one with a sticker chart. This week a little girl pointed at him in the queue for class and said that’s the naughty boy - everyone looked at us like we had the plague.

He’s a kind, empathic, fun child but he can’t sit still or stop making noises and he struggles with transitions from one task to another. I am constantly trying to help him but it’s so difficult to get him to listen. I don’t think he has ADHD or anything like that but he just can’t control himself sometimes. He was on the clouds again today (no one else is ever on them) for making silly noises at group time. He was trying to be good so he could go to soft play this weekend. I was so frustrated with him and disappointed that i have probably been more punative than I should have been. I don’t shout or loose control but I have told him how cross and at a loss I am which I now wish I hadn’t.

I find it so hard having the naughty child - I feel everyone assumes it’s our poor parenting but I genuinely don’t think it is. I hate not doing things by the book and myself was a v disciplined and quiet child so I’m finding him so hard. My DH is great with him but it’s me that is dealing with school as I’m on mat leave. I really don’t want him to be labelled the disruptive child that everyone wants to avoid. I don’t know what to do next. I am meeting with his teacher in November so hopefully she can give me a clearer picture of how far outside the norm his behaviour is. I guess we could see an educational psychologist or something privately but I don’t know if that’s OTT. Any other naughty kid parents with advice?

Sorry, I think it's incredibly early days to be looking at diagnosis v of an underlying condition when he's not displayed any particularly problematic behaviour in any other setting. And even if he does merit a diagnosis (sounds like there may be some sensory seeking and overloading), those same staff will still have to manage him - any school with a decent SEN approach will be dealing with this stuff in a creative and positive way regardless of whether a child has a diagnosis, as part of day to day behaviour management.

I think you need to meet with teacher and also with head, and ask how the clouds system squares with positive behaviour management (for which there's lots of good evidence), point out that he's already receiving bullying thanks to this negative system, and ask what kind of strategies they're going to put in place to manage things in a more positive way for him. Don't feel ashamed - I have finally learned that this is PART OF THEIR JOB

I hate the cloud system too. I'm a secondary teacher and in my first year used to put 'names on the board' for lateness, naughtiness etc. Never worked - kids just give up when they see their name there.

I have two DS with ASD and they were both labelled 'naughty' by the other kids st nursery. Luckily eldest is now in a school with a small unit attached where they are amazing with him. I would recommend trying to get referred to community paediatrician.

My DS was also the naughty child. He was very bright but was constantly disruptive in class. He was lively at home but not difficult. He was visited at school by the Ed Psych and then referred to CAMHS who diagnosed him with ASD at the age of 7. He was 'fortunate' enough to get 1:1 support - although he spent his whole school life trying to shake it off! He is now at Uni and living away from home and enjoying life a lot more than he was in his school days.

Lots to think about here - thank you everyone. I have always been reluctant to seek a label I guess as it seemed a bit like abdicating my responsibility/role or trying to excuse poor behaviour. This is obviously doing him a disservice if he has a diagnosis and needs support. I will ask the teacher about how she is planning to help him and how Ed psych works at school

What was interesting to us at the time was that DS was able to concentrate on Lego, for example, for long periods of time and showed precision and patience when he was building and playing with it. So he was able to concentrate when he was interested in something he liked!

We took him for an OT assessment when he was 7. They looked at loads of aspects and narrowed his issues down to his coordination. They made loads of positive observations which was lovely to read and made a nice change! They suggested DCD - he needed to improve his motor coordination as for whatever reason it hadn’t developed very well as he grew. His core strength was very limited so he struggled to sit still - he physically couldn’t do it. He craved excessive sensory feedback and stimulation as he wasn’t getting as much as he should have been ordinarily. He never got dizzy, no matter how much he was spun round in a chair (he is a rollercoaster demon). His greatest joy was (and still is) a good long stretch out

On the strength of the assessment, he received Learning Support at school. He went to Handwriting club, he was allowed fidget spinners and a spiky cushion, he enjoyed one to one chats every week or so. All very positive and helpful for their understanding of him and his understanding of what school needed him to be doing.

We also went to a Behavioural Optometrist and did loads of different exercises over the course of 2-3 years. Good for the whole family!

He still has minor challenges now 5 years later but he’s always enjoyed school and has been able to shine. Thank god for good teachers.

That’s interesting @CountryPlumpkin - my son falls over a lot - always has, walked fairly late (16 months). He also struggles with writing and drawing - he is left handed. A co-ordination problem could be possible. Did you see the OT privately? Would you need to be seen by the NHS for the school to acknowledge the results?

Here’s the rub ... he’s in private school and we were able to pay for a private assessment. We didn’t need a formal diagnosis from an NHS Consultant as his school had the resources to help him without needing one.

I am well aware how lucky we all are. If we were going to our local village primary, things would be very different for him (and me).

But my son didn’t have any obvious delays as a baby. He was unremarkable! Until he learn to walk and then ... he was off! Off to find some boundaries to test And he’s never stopped!

OP - this was me with my DS. However, luckily, his Reception teacher was the school SENCO and she recognised that he behaviour wasn’t naughtiness. Long story short, he got an ASD diagnosis in the summer (he’s just started Yr2). Please get your son checked out ASAP - it took us from Nov 2017 to Aug 2019 to get a diagnosis and son struggled at school for all that time. Get the SENCO at your school to do an initial assessment followed by an EP assessment and see what they think.

I will speak to the teacher and see what she says. I will suggest SENCO/ ed psych review and go from there. I would pay privately if it would help but I’ve heard schools will only take NHS diagnoses etc.

Until then I’ll try and ignore the silent icy judgement of the school mums, back at work in April so can pretend they don’t exist

OP I’ve had the naughty child in DC1. Thankfully not the only one in her class but I was often pulled aside for a word in reception and at nursery.

She has improved so much in the last 2 years. Just grown up and got more control over her impulses (though still more impulse driven than other kids...). Hang in there.

DC1 doesn’t have ASD or ADHD but she is definitely a sensory seeker and needs to touch and fidget and make noise - I’m no expert but would say your son sounds similar. Things like wobble cushions, chew bracelets and fidget toys apparently help with this, also walking or scooting to school not driving. Any sensory input and movement they can get in during the day is good and helps them stop seeking the input in undesirable ways.

I now have DC2 in reception who has told me about “the naughty boy” in her class. I have absolutely no judgment and have told DC2 that she shouldn’t call him that, he’s still learning and frankly she’s not always an angel herself (nor is any child). Please don’t assume all the mums are judging, most of them are probably just grateful it’s not been their child in trouble (that day...)

I would pay privately if it would help but I’ve heard schools will only take NHS diagnoses etc

Many professionals work part time for the NHS and part time privately. Their diagnoses are accepted by schools and local authorities, how could they not be, they administer and score the same tests irrespective of who pays their fees.

Assessments for children are often carried out by a team of professionals, Paed, Ed Psych, SLT and OT.
Also, don't ask for an assessment for a named condition, so many overlap with each other and share a lot of traits e.g. ASD, ADD, ADHD, Dyspraxia DCD, Dyslexia, PDA and any other's I've forgotten to name that it's best for the professionals to carry out their tests and decide which diagnosis best fits your child. It's rare to have only ASD as a stand-alone diagnosis, there are several co-morbid conditions. It's only in the latest round of diagnostic criteria that sensory processing (SPD) has been included in ASD.

@BlankTimes it makes no sense that they wouldn’t accept privately obtained diagnoses but I know of 2 families (not local to me granted) where the schools have said precisely this.

I thought my son was "not naughty enough" to have ADHD until a psychiatrist pointed out all the low level things that were apparently classic symptoms. Constantly fidgeting. I'd thought ADHD was more intense hyperactivity - climbing the walls, being a complete tear away. The symptoms can be more subtle, and when you're parenting the child they are things you sometimes just put down to them being boisterous. I waited too long for a diagnosis and bitterly regret it. Your son sounds JUST like my child in reception. Please push to have your child assessed so he can get the help he needs, if it is ADHD.

my son is onthe spectrum, if i a child had said to my child i would have said thats not very nice is it?!, ill pull them up on their rudeness if no one else will.

@BlankTimes my neighbour says the school don't take her sons ASD diagnosis as it's a private one. Apparently he wasn't diagnosed as having ASD on the NHS. So read of that what you will. He certainly has some behavioural issues, but is highly intelligent, yet lacking in the ability to sit and concentrate. For example he can do very complex maths but will only do it if someone writes the his answers down for him. I would say some of it is down to parenting, very much a spoilt special snowflake and his mum is 'up the school having a word with them about how they treat him' quite often, but he's been in the school system a long time he's off the secondary soon, so there must be something. I have actually had to tell him off a few times when he's been playing out with local children. They never correct his behaviour, but I think they fear he will kick off. You can never get the full story, maybe it's a different issue than ASD, but she is happy saying it's Aspergers and not willing to consider it's something else?

@theoldmanfromup what help is the diagnosis? Is there strategies for coping or is it something they have to have medication for ? I assume the same as you about ADHD, I sort of hope my son is just immature. He has been slow developmentally ( and is only 3) , but I do fear there is something, I'm not sure he fits the ASD profile.

Never mind who accepts what. If you're son is ASD then the earlier the intervention the better. You don't get those months back. DS was privately Dx at 3. It took the NHS until he was 5. School was more than happy to work with what the developmental paediatrician had to say. In the end we went private for school as well because he functions so much better in a smaller class. Good luck OP.

@minipie I’m glad your DD has improved, I really hope this happens with my son. I will have a look into sensory seeking issues - it does sound like him.

At preschool the mums were understanding, at school it almost seems like they want him to be the naughty one so their child isn’t - like he is fulfilling a role. They want a child to vilify and he has identified himself early on.

I hope the teacher is compassionate and helpful when I talk to her - she comes across as fairly disinterested most of the time but I guess at the end of the day she’s pretty stressed

@steppenmum I agree it wouldn’t stop me pursuing help privately but it would be so frustrating if the school wouldn’t acknowledge it. I guess I would have to go down both routes simultaneously. We could stretch to private school if necessary - the main ones near us don’t seem like they would be keen to have a child with any additional needs - super academic

I think part of the problem of not wanting to 'label' children with a diagnosis is that unfortunately they get a label anyway. My ds1 has a label of 'autistic' but I much prefer this to the label 'naughty'. Even though he still does the same things people are more likely to deal with the challenges he presents in a much better way rather than just telling him off.

You could be talking about my dd, she had the label of naughty and defiant for years. She was/is challenging she's y6 now. She was finally diagnosed asd earlier this year.

I have been back and forth to the docs, since she was about 6, because of behaviour, the school were not helpful. So much so they delayed the diagnosis by saying she was absolutely fine in a report, yet a few months later saying she can't sit still, focus etc etc.

Go to the gp, ask for a referral, write absolutely everything down before you go, as you will forget. Even the smallest, most insignificant thing. How was he as a baby, interacting with others, sleeping, eating, sensory literally everything. Good luck.

Lots of good advice above in terms of exploring whether there might be additional needs.

The other thing I would say is to try to keep positive: he will grow and mature. Years ago I was teaching a Year 1 class and there was a boy called D. He was ultra lively, very physical and disruptive in whole-class sessions. Constantly in trouble with the lunchtime supervisors. However, he was never malicious - it just seemed to arise from excess energy. My colleague was also tearing her hair out with his brother in Year 2.

I moved on from the school and lost touch with them. A few years ago I discovered by chance that a colleague knew their family - the boys were now in their late teens and had both matured into lovely young men. Her description of them was so glowing that I certainly didn't say a word of what mischief makers they had been as young boys!

Definitely speak to the SENCO. That’s the path you need to go down to get the support that could benefit your DS. It also makes sure the school as a whole is aware that your DS isn’t just ‘naughty’. It encourages understanding rather than lazy judgements. And don’t worry about the other parents. From bitter experience, I’m confident that the vast majority aren’t judging - you are imagining this because you are feeling anxious and unhappy.

My advice to you, after my own experiences, is be kind to yourself and try not to over think things! I know it’s hard but you have a beautiful, wonderful, happy little man and everything will be ok in the end.