Being parent to the naughty kid

[theworstwife]

My DS is the naughty kid in his new reception class, he’s the only one put on the clouds. In preschool he was the only one with a sticker chart. This week a little girl pointed at him in the queue for class and said that’s the naughty boy - everyone looked at us like we had the plague.

He’s a kind, empathic, fun child but he can’t sit still or stop making noises and he struggles with transitions from one task to another. I am constantly trying to help him but it’s so difficult to get him to listen. I don’t think he has ADHD or anything like that but he just can’t control himself sometimes. He was on the clouds again today (no one else is ever on them) for making silly noises at group time. He was trying to be good so he could go to soft play this weekend. I was so frustrated with him and disappointed that i have probably been more punative than I should have been. I don’t shout or loose control but I have told him how cross and at a loss I am which I now wish I hadn’t.

I find it so hard having the naughty child - I feel everyone assumes it’s our poor parenting but I genuinely don’t think it is. I hate not doing things by the book and myself was a v disciplined and quiet child so I’m finding him so hard. My DH is great with him but it’s me that is dealing with school as I’m on mat leave. I really don’t want him to be labelled the disruptive child that everyone wants to avoid. I don’t know what to do next. I am meeting with his teacher in November so hopefully she can give me a clearer picture of how far outside the norm his behaviour is. I guess we could see an educational psychologist or something privately but I don’t know if that’s OTT. Any other naughty kid parents with advice?

Absolutely right @lorisparkle - I know I probably need to face up to the fact he’s not just very active, chatty, distracted etc - it’s not fair to him.

There have been lots of great suggestions and various routes people have taken in this thread. If I was to pay for assessment where should I start - Ed psych, OT, paeds etc?

I think by singing to himself when he should be listening he’s communicating ‘I don’t give a shit about this story’.
No child of 5 thinks like that. What it means is: I have no idea what is going on, or how I should behave, I have totally zoned out and am singing to pass the time. He probably doesn't know he should be listening to the story, it certainly hasn't engaged his attention. In fact his senses are probably massively over stimulated.

Imagine you are at a music festival - you are somewhere towards the back of a large crowd. There is a main performer on the stage, but to the right of you there is a small group drumming, behind you is a donut stand and you are hungry, and then the couple next to you start a huge argument/fight. Would you really be concentrating on the band? What if it was a band that you were "meh" about?

Yes it takes a long time for referrals - which is exactly why you should start the process now.

He doesn’t seem to care what the teacher says. My DD was extremely egalitarian - she didn't "naturally" see that being a grown up necessarily made you in charge; it certainly didn't mean that everything you said was right, and her respect had to be earned. And yes it made school hard for her.

I'd try to get to see a developmental paediatrician at that age.

This sounds like my son. He does have ASD and ADHD though. I wouldn't presume to 'diagnose' your son or anything!

It sucks having the "naughty" kid but if it helps. My husband was that kid as well, he is now a hugely successful, well liked and respected adult. It turns out that things like, going against the grain, thinking a million miles outside the box, questioning why things are the way they are and pushing boundaries whilst not useful in the classroom can get you ahead in life when channelled correctly.

I hang on to that.

I have a child with asd but it was my other child who was very fidgety, clumsy and so on and he just grew out of it basically. He does a lot of sports to use up energy and his attention span got better naturally. Luckily his school didnt really see it as an issue and did things like fidget toys for him. He was actually very enthusiastic about learning which helped them see him positively though. He liked stories for instance. Having seen an OT for my child with ASD i wish i'd taken my mr fidget to an OT too as he was sensory seeking and had no awsreness of his own body, he was just socially acceptable in how it came out and his school werent labelling it as nsughty. But i think an OT would have helped him and in a less positive school would have been essential.
The only other thing could be hearing as sitting listenning to a story you cant hear is boring or finally speech/language delays can leave children with worse receptive langusge than their speech indicates so a story could be challenging.

I felt this was me last year with my ds in year 1. He was constantly in trouble, he got in with a few lively children in the class and there seemed to be incidents every week. The class itself was known as the 'naughty class' and they knew it. I think this is dangerous in itself as once they get this label they tend to live up to it- I certainly felt this with my son.

I worried he was getting himself a reputation and others didn't want to play with him. He wasn't invited on many play dates, except my the mums who I am friends with, and I really worried about being judged too. He was excluded from a birthday party, so to an extent I think he had got himself a reputation.

It's hard but try not to worry what others think just concentrate on him and you.

I agree- go into the school earlier than November. I left it with my ds until the final term of year 1 and really regret it. By that time behaviour in the class seemed to have got out of hand and my ds was very unhappy. Push for what you want- without being unreasonable or demanding. You know you're child best. I wish I had done this earlier as I ended up with an unhappy, angry boy with low self esteem.

I think a lot of it is down to the teacher and classroom environment like others have said. My ds Classroom seemed to be a very negative place, lots of shouting, negative behaviour system. It sounds like this is the case here. As for a new positive behaviour system, more positive approach and a system of dealing with your child which you know he will respond to.

My son was also being challenging at home. I thing I did that really seemed to turn his behaviour around was being more positive with him. Telling him how proud of him, how great he was when he did the right thing. Really exaggerating this. He had marbles where he gets a reward for certain amounts. I started being more emphatic to him, trying to understand his behaviour more and let him calm down during meltdown before talking/disciplining him. This really worked- Iooking Back I think this was because he was so unhappy at school. He was a mixed up, angry and emotional boy. I felt so awful I left it so long to sort.

He's now in year 2 and is extremely happy and well behaved- but not perfect! and I think it's partly down to just growing up slightly but also very much down to the teacher who understands him.

Sorry cross posted @CountryPlumpkin - would the teacher need to agree re SENCO? When I last spoke to her she was keen to just see how he was etc. @MollyButton whenever I ask him why he wasn’t doing what he was supposed to he always says he didn’t want to, I wanted to do something else etc. He is never really cross about it he just doesn’t see that he has to behave and the teacher is in charge. He is the sort of kid you can’t lie to - doesn’t believe in fairies, ghosts etc - always wants the truth

@Streamingbannersofdawn my husband was the same although was complicated by epilepsy as an infant. He was more wild though - very daredevil behaviour and is now a v mellow successful adult. I do hold on to this. My son is like a clone of his dad. My DH was not great academically at school but flourished at uni and in work. I am super straight laced and was a v high achiever at school - I find it hard to understand why he doesn’t want to please the teacher - this is my failing as a parent I know

My DD pointed out the naughty boy to me at preschool loudly when he and his mum were 1m away. I felt so sorry and my DD got quite a talking to. I don’t judge that kid or his mum in the slightest. It may well be the case that that ‘naughty boy’ might just be the most interesting person in that class. His behaviour is for the teacher and his parents to deal with and is not a measure of how nice a child he is. This is what my DD was told along with the fact that everyone is different and some people find school environment easy and some find it hard.

Only asshole parents would be judging you and your child. So just focus on him and getting him the help he needs to settle in and function well in the school setting.

@Happyspud I have been in the position before where I know he wants to point at a child and tell me something and I have cut it off sharpish. This mum stared and said keep away from him then. I then heard her telling other mums about him whilst staring at me! Totally ridiculous behaviour - I don’t give a shit what they think of me but I don’t want him pigeon holed already

That’s totally and utterly unfair. What a bitch.

He doesnt sound especially 'naughty ' to me .Not all children fit into the narriw band of behaviour a lot of schools expect and if they are already labelling him as naughty its not surprising he lives up to their expectations.
Have you spoken to the teacher /head ? If you arent confident the school is a good fit for your son and its possible to move him , dont be afraid to move him to a more suitable one .My daughter moved my grandsons when one of them started suffering severe anxiety and the change in him was immediate

He sounds like a little boy we had in ny nursery class last year. It took him a long time to sit down for story and like you his mum said when she asked him why he just said he didn't want to. He was also super affectionate and would sit if he could sit on an adults lap. We got him to sit with me (one of the TAs) and then gradually over the year he was happy to sit and listen on his own. Is there a TA in the class who he likes? We also made sure we told mum when he had a good day so she could reward him at home, positive reinforcement etc. Though we did have something like the cloud system as well as for a lot of children it does work. I would ask to speak to the teacher now and explain he is is being labelled by the other children and their parents and how concerned you are about this. Honestly if he is the "naughty one" in the class and all he is doing is being a bit of a clown on the carpet it sounds like the teacher should have the time to make a concerted effort to try out and introduce strategies that will help him!

I think he could be quite bright if he tried - his speech is fine, good vocabulary, very inquisitive. It’s like he just can’t help but be distracted - he doesn’t shout or hurt others or necessarily do naughty things he just can’t do as he’s told. He doesn’t seem to care if the teacher is unhappy but will be remorseful to me and say he’ll be better tomorrow etc. He got in trouble this week for trying to hug someone in his class who didn’t want to be hugged. Also for singing/making silly noises in group time and not listening during assembly. As one offs you wouldn’t think it was anything but it’s every day.

Op, I’m not sure about how you get to see the SENCO but just being proactive and asking for an appointment would be my first step. Unfortunately, support and assistance cost money and I have friends with kids in ‘outstanding’ primary schools who still struggle to get the help they deserve because the funding isn’t there. It’s not the school’s fault. But you should push and push and push and not be fobbed off. Maintain a dialogue with your son’s teacher so they know you are encouraging positive behaviour at home and at school. I basically got myself on the teacher’s radar each year and stayed there

Is the class developmentally appropriate? So many reception classes really aren’t sadly. I’d be asking how long they are expected to sit for, how much is adult directed and how much is free play? It shouldn’t be longer than 10minutes at a time max (but so often is!).
If you’re well off, remove him and send him to Forest school. He’ll flourish.

@theworstwife

You definitely shouldn't need to pay for Ed psych - the school should arrange for them to come into the school. I would push for this ASAP as it was key for us getting diagnosis and support.

We paid for a private OT assessment to feed into EHCP application and it was very useful. That is something you will struggle to get unless private IMO so probably worth pursuing.

Receptive language isnt the same as expressive language. My son with asd talks like an adult but actually his receptive language is delayed. Its just an idea if its all the sitting still listening bits that are an issue.

Cross post - he really does sound like my DS at that age! It’s uncanny

My son is currently off playing rugby for the weekend. He is doing well at school, has a lovely little group of friends and is generally happy and enthusiastic about pretty much everything. Your little man will be just fine in the long run.

Start talking to his teacher, teaching assistant, the SENCO, other parents ... it all starts with good communication.

I'm that parent too op. And it's very difficult, but my dd has just been diagnosed with ADHD. She's currently sat in the bath singing to herself. So am far today she's been on a 4 miles walk with my dh and the dogs, eaten her body weight in food and not stopped since she got up at 6am (went to bed at 7pm and slept a solid 11 hrs)

I'd recommend you talk to your SENCO at school, mine was brilliant. And the teacher.

Then go to the GP

Also make sure your dc has routine routine and more routine. Sleep is crucial, as is a good diet and lots and lots of exercise.

Maybe there are strategies like a sensory box for things he can manipulate if he needs to. Perhaps try and approach it by getting him to see it from other people’s point of view: some kids want to learn and it’s important that they get the chance to do this without other noise/distraction. Maybe you could experiment by dirupting him while he is focusing on his fave activity? Perhaps practice sitting still next to him at home? I have found that ds1’s concentration just improved as he grew older... he still has a way to go though!

@PEkithelp I’m not sure is the honest answer. All I get from DS is whether he was on the clouds and what was for dessert. He does seem to have quite a lot of free play (my kitchen is full of junk modelled shops, boats, cars etc) and breaks. He struggled with group time at preschool but they would give him a job to do during which helped. I do sometimes think they expect a lot but the other 20 kids in his class manage it so maybe it isn’t unreasonable

I was that naughty kid, and I wish I hadn't waited until I was an adult to explore the reasons. ADHD doesn't mean they have to take meds, a diagnosis can help a child to get the right help. It might not be ADHD it might be another issue, but screening him won't do any harm.

How much exercise does he get? Mine have to do a lot of exercise outside of school time because they don't do enough at school

The school community culture sounds fairly unpleasant tbh. A PP have did I would be flagging to the school that the management system is leading to bullying and ostracism.
Also - not sure what the teacher is actually doing to support the behaviour? Are school suggesting an intervention ? Diagnosis or not, they still need to address the behaviours causing them concern.