Men at baby groups...

[Foxmuffin]

I might be BU but I’ve got a 3 month old baby and have been going to a few baby groups. I find it a bit off putting when partners/husbands join Mum and baby. I totally understand that women who have had sections will need help driving and possibly lifting things but have also know partners drop off and find a pub/cafe for the hour groups go on.

I’m EBF and I’ve been to a group of 9 where I was the only one BFing, with groups of new mums I feel comfortable just getting my boob out to feed, but when babies are on the bottle with men there I feel a bit uncomfortable and it kind of spoils it for me. I suppose if their partner is BFing I feel a bit more like they’ll understand. Please understand I’m not looking down at FF, it’s more that if Mum’s OH is used to seeing BFing and babies feeding for comfort for what can sometimes feel like most the group I feel they’ll understand.

My own DH went back to work after a week so I’ve been doing all these things on my own for some time. He has never been one to pander over either of us so I’ve had to do the food shop etc myself and get on without support (actually a little pandering would have been nice, but he’s not like that).

I’m probably being self conscious, I don’t mind feeding in public but in enclosed spaces I feel the need to be more discreet which then spoils baby bonding time which is why I go to these classes.

Really? So if a woman is not comfortable exposing her body, it’s her problem? So nobody should ever be considerate of anyone else’s feelings. Why is that an interesting position ? If a woman wants to breastfeed then she has 2 distinct choices: to only do so indoors where she feels comfortable; to do so wherever the need arises.

Neither are good or bad. They entail different levels of preparedness and personal choice.

*If the group hasn’t thought about women’s privacy, then they should. Do you know the space OP talks about?

She said I don’t mind feeding in public but in enclosed spaces I feel the need to be more discreet which then spoils baby bonding time which is why I go to these classes. So she is placing additional limits on the group. Other groups are available, OP said she goes to others. This one doesn't sound like it is a good fit for her!

Maybe it isn’t. My initial contributions focused on the shaming of a woman because she didn’t want to breastfeed in intimate spaces where men are present. Her personal boundaries are hers, I’m not going to question or nitpick them to find inconsistency because they’re valid as they are.

Why is that an interesting position ?

Because, obviously, we consider others feelings all the time.

It's an incredibly dangerous precedent to suggest that a woman's want or need for privacy is automatically trumped by another's disability.

Is it? I'm struggling to think of a single situation where a want for privacy should override the rights of a disabled person.

The OP hasn't said if she has even asked for somewhere private. She has straight away said she doesnt think men should be there. Her solution is to exclude others. She makes the decision as to what she is comfortable with and then should act accordingly within her life. If someone doesnt want to feed in public then they alter their life to account for this.

Yabvu
There is so much unreasonableness about your post I don’t know where to start! I thunk most pp have said it already

It's clearly an emotive topic. I do struggle with this though. What if the father is a single parent (I have known of instances where the mother died in childbirth for example) or as some of the women have described, they are disabled or have suffered PND? Surely we can't be saying that all of these people need to stay at home? I find it really sad, I truly do sympathise with not feeling comfortable or if the odd (and I mean odd!) person has made an unsuitable comment or glared, but unfortunately we can all experience this feeling for various reasons - I was shamed and upset by other mums for having an EMCS (despite womb rupturing in labour), not being able to breastfeed - unfortunately there are silly people in the world but they must be ignored. I never felt particularly comfortable bottle feeding in public to be honest, but that was my issue and you just have to get on with it unfortunately. There doesn't seem to be any easy solution if the covers / clothing don't work - I didn't realise.

How can someone consider the OPs feelings if she hasn't asked the group leader about it? She never says that the men even looked at her once, no one was being inconsiderate to the OP. We cant expect anyone to go through every second of everyday trying to account for the feelings of every possible person the come across.

I understand people feel nervous about doing things for the first time. But maybe the couples are there together for that reason too. So they aren't nervous when they go alone.

Or, for some of us, parenting is a team exercise. On the precious days I had off, I would join DH at the baby groups - should I sit at home? (I hated them with my first but persevered for DS1)

Sadly you can't talj about BF empowering whatevers then follow it with, oh, but men...
Makes a nonsense of whatever statement you're trying to make.

Go back. Try again. That staring person might have been trying to look friendly and empathetic. Might have RBF like me!

Women don’t get lumped with all the childcare because a woman doesn’t want to get her breasts out in front of men.

No they don't, but not allowing dads to participate in the care of their children is not going to encourage more dads to be SAHD is it? If, as a society, we continue to perpetuate the norm of mother's being the primary care giver, because mums refuse to allow dads to attend social activities for young children, then what will change?

If women are too embarrassed to feed in a place where men are legitimately allowed to be then yes, that is up to the breast feeding mother to address. If as a bfing mum you limit your activities to women only spaces you are going to have a very restricted life.

The answer here would be to have a room for bfing mum's, but OP says that she doesn't want to go there, so what's the solution?

There isn't always a room available to feed in depending on where you are so you either have to not go to those places, try to overcome your awkwardness or accept that you feed the baby in a different way, maybe expressing and bottle feeding when out. What you can't do is ban men from any place that you might want to go to for the duration of your bfing.

@DecomposingComposers
I think much of your analysis is right in that a breastfeeding mother that isn't willing or able to breastfeed in public for whatever reason will struggle to socialise and get out and about. Does that mean that she has to accept public feeding or has therefore automatically opted to become isolated? No wonder so many women give up breastfeeding if this is the choice that they face.

If breastfeeding has been scientifically proven to be the optimal mode of feeding a baby and many women express an interest in breastfeeding then why on earth as a society aren't we doing more to actively support it? The fact that feeding rooms and other facilities are rare at the moment doesn't meant that this is how it should be. Women shouldn't feel forced into exposing a "private part" in public or give up their preferred method of feeding their child. It's all a bit bonkers really and it makes me very angry that women are just being told to get over their inhibitions and that it's their problem to manage alone.

@CuriousaboutSamphire
Or we could put more emphasis on supporting women to breastfeed rather than giving them such a stark choice!

Having a room set aside for breastfeeding used to be an absolute anathema. It is why the law was clarified, so women weren't shuffled off into a separate room.

So having a space is a good thing, but here needs to be care about that too! So that women don't feel they must use it when breastfeeding.

@peachgreen

Is it? I'm struggling to think of a single situation where a want for privacy should override the rights of a disabled person.
So male carers should automatically be allowed in open plan female changing rooms for example?

Bumpity I think we agree but are just phrasing it differently. But basically it is always the woman's choice. She either does or does not feel comfortable breastfeeding in public. How do you change that?

Fathers have just as much right to be there as mothers. I think it's so sad that it's expected they go to the pub for an hour while mothers bond with their babies and other parents. Women complain about their partners not being supportive enough and then we have posts like this!!

I've read the full thread and am literally still at the suggestion men should drop women off and wait in the pub.... like 1970....

If I fed somewhere different I’d be wasting my money and would sometimes miss out on most the group. So it would defeat the object for me

The OP specifically says that she doesn't want to go to a private room to feed. So what is the solution here?

This is for me where she is BU. You simply can't demand that everywhere accommodates exactly what you want.

In this instance she has 2 choices - go and feed in front of everyone or don't go. I don't see any other option if she is discounting going to another room.

bumpity out of interest what do you think mothers that live in more rural areas should do if they dont want to feed in public but dont want to be shackled to the home? My local town has 1 department store but it doesnt have a feeding room, there are not many big shops or even a shopping centre. The closest city is an hour away. What would you propose? The council makes rooms in the middle of a town centre, seems unlikely as they cant even maintain public toilets. A shop uses part of their space to put in a feeding room? Feeding rooms work in big cities in smaller towns they are not always feasible. So for some women it really is the only choice,either you get used to feeding in public in some way or you dont go out.

So having a space is a good thing, but here needs to be care about that too! So that women don't feel they must use it when breastfeeding.

I agree with this. It’s about options isn’t it? And consideration.

My sister was sexually abused as a child. She was determined to breastfeed her son, but was incredibly anxious at doing so in front of men. She was very isolated as a result and didn’t go to any groups etc I’d love a solution that prioritised breastfeeding in the early years, and considered the needs of all breastfeeding mothers.

@CuriousaboutSamphire
I'm not sure I would say it's a "choice" per se. Religion, socialisation, past experiences etc all play a part in why a woman could feel uncomfortable or be prevented from feeding in the company of men.

So how would you change that? Change the world? Or change what can be changed, step by step?

We are all moving the goalposts... this one woman has issues breastfeeding in enclosed spaces and dislikes dads being in that space when she wants to breastfeed. That is a valid feeling but unreasnoable to expect that one group to change to accommodate her. She can make other choices - smaller room off the hall if available, to attend a different group, etc etc

Ffs. This isn't AIBU.

Offer solutions, not a pile on onto a new mother who feels uncomfortable and is looking for support.

OP I remember feeling the same way. My solution was a poncho type throw that I wore instead of a coat, over me and the baby in a sling. I fed her all over the place in public and learned to feel comfortable doing it. If you need a bit more bodily privacy then a large draped scarf around your shoulders and the boob in use might do the trick.

@Bumpitybumper

Does it mean that she has to accept public feeding or become isolated? In a way, yes it does imo.

I know the benefits of bfing. I know the difficulties. I breast fed my dd until she was 3 and a half. Believe me, I know how uncomfortable it can be. You think people state when feeding a baby, try feeding a toddler who is running around and then see how many disapproving looks you get!

Yes, there needs to be more feeding rooms available. The problem then is that you shut women away. The OP says that she doesn't want a private room because she won't be able to join in the group and that is true.

When my dd was 6 weeks old we attended a christening. My friend asked me not to feed in front of anyone at the party afterwards and showed me a room where I could go. Except my dd was cluster feeding. I spent the whole day in that room alone, feeding my dd. Is that progress? I don't think so.

So yes, ultimately if you don't want to feed in public then you are going to become isolated. I don't know the answer to that, unless as a mum you restrict your life to women only spaces - so no shops, leisure activities, cafes, restaurants, train journeys, airports...

That to me seems a very restricted life and not one that I would choose. Yes, we need more feeding rooms but we need to recognise that is also isolating for bfing mums.

BumpityBump If there isn't a disabled changing room, yes. The disabled person's right is to use the gym / swimming pool etc. If they need a carer in order to facilitate that, and the venue doesn't provide disabled changing facilities, then yes, a male carer should be allowed in the women's changing room. Thankfully I can't think of a single occasion where I've been unable to access disabled changing facilities with a disabled friend / relative.