Men at baby groups...

[Foxmuffin]

I might be BU but I’ve got a 3 month old baby and have been going to a few baby groups. I find it a bit off putting when partners/husbands join Mum and baby. I totally understand that women who have had sections will need help driving and possibly lifting things but have also know partners drop off and find a pub/cafe for the hour groups go on.

I’m EBF and I’ve been to a group of 9 where I was the only one BFing, with groups of new mums I feel comfortable just getting my boob out to feed, but when babies are on the bottle with men there I feel a bit uncomfortable and it kind of spoils it for me. I suppose if their partner is BFing I feel a bit more like they’ll understand. Please understand I’m not looking down at FF, it’s more that if Mum’s OH is used to seeing BFing and babies feeding for comfort for what can sometimes feel like most the group I feel they’ll understand.

My own DH went back to work after a week so I’ve been doing all these things on my own for some time. He has never been one to pander over either of us so I’ve had to do the food shop etc myself and get on without support (actually a little pandering would have been nice, but he’s not like that).

I’m probably being self conscious, I don’t mind feeding in public but in enclosed spaces I feel the need to be more discreet which then spoils baby bonding time which is why I go to these classes.

Moat baby groups are in church halls etc and run by volunteers if you start expecting them to be able to provide a secondary room just for breastfeeding mothers you start making it more difficult for them to run them. In my playgroup there would be no space for a second room, so then you would have to tell men not to come to groups.
It really is on the breastfeeding mother in this instance to choose what she is or isn't comfortable with and act accordingly. She could get a cover, not go all together, go feed in her car etc but she cant demand men are banned just for her comfort. And not everywhere has feeding rooms,none in my local town,so the option is either get used to feeding in public or just dont go out.

I used to frequent places with feeding rooms etc pretty frequently such as John Lewis
There really aren’t many of those though. They’re basically limited to big department stores and shopping malls. Fine if you happen to be in a big city and are willing to wait for 1 of only 3 feeding rooms to become vacant. But the rest of the time there are no such rooms and you have no choice other than to find a quiet cafe and get on with it.

YANBU. Your feelings are valid

jessica what about the feelings of the dads? What if they are single dads or sahds etc are they not allowed to socialise with their babies because it might upset some women? No wonder raising children is still seen as womens work.

@codenameduchess
I have been, and will be again soon, a breastfeeding mother. I support breastfeeding mothers completely but this attitude and behaviour of being embarrassed and insisting that it's not ok to feed in public is counter productive and holding us all back
It's not about women choosing to be embarrassed and insisting it's not ok to feed in public. That's like sayings it's counterproductive for women to insist of a female nurse doing her smear or a female midwife. I will reiterate again that women have been socialised all their lives to believe that breasts are a private part and are sexual. As soon as a woman has a baby they are supposed to switch all this conditioning off and whip their breasts out in front of men just because they're now breastfeeding. Lots of women find this transition easy but many don't. You make it sound like women are opressing themselves and men by manufacturing an issue that could so easily be overcome. It just isn't that simple Some babies don't like cover ups so it's not a solution for everyone.

@Ginnymweasley
Most play groups that I go to are run in churches/church halls and there are plenty of side rooms that could be used for this purpose. Obviously I don't expect groups where this isn't an option to magically provide these facilities but I do think thought should be given to this where possible.

jessica what about the feelings of the dads?

This thread is about the OP and her feelings. Men don’t breastfeed so cannot fully understand the emotions and privacy issues associated with it. There is a way to support a person, this thread hasn’t displayed that. It’s centred men. Yes Dads should be involved in the raising of children. But in the breastfeeding years, we have to consider that some mums need more privacy than others, and that should be prioritised in infant groups etc while also trying to find a way for Dads to be included. Many religions have strict rules on this too, ignoring that would exclude those women- and probably often does.

I will reiterate again that women have been socialised all their lives to believe that breasts are a private part and are sexual. As soon as a woman has a baby they are supposed to switch all this conditioning off and whip their breasts out in front of men just because they're now breastfeeding. Lots of women find this transition easy but many don't

Exactly. This isn’t hard to understand. We can see both sides of the issue, while thoughtfully addressing the OP’s feelings. Of course it’s good we are seeing Dads involved with their children more. But women have a biological role in the early years men do not, and a little thought given to it, without shaming any woman, is not too much to ask.

YANBU. Your feelings are valid

Feelings are not valid if they are invalidating a disabled mother's right to access the same facilities as any other woman

The playgroup I go to is for children from babies up to 4 hrs, so because they might be 1 breastfeeding mother dads cant take their toddler to the group in case the mother doesnt like it? My playgroup is also run by a husband and wife. If the woman feels she needs privacy to feed in then that is her choice. She gets a cover or finds somewhere else to feed. If it was a breastfeeding support group then I would understand but a normal baby/toddler group it's unfair to ban fathers.

Yrs not hours.

I think this is the kind of attitude that prevents dads from joining in on their children's activities my husband came to baby groups I ebf he isn't interested in the other mums feeding their babies he was just interested in dd and what she was doing and their are plenty of dads these days that care for children when mum is at work so including them in these groups is important if they are to continue taking their children to such things
Not all dads want to be dumped off at the pub this is a very stereotypical attitude
Your self consciousnesses isn't the fault of dads but is something you need to work on yourself
My dh actually said since we had our baby and been ebf he is desensitised to boobs he's seen so many no and is a brilliant supporter of breastfeeding women which is commendable in my opinion rather that than him taking no interest sitting in a pub

Feelings are not valid if they are invalidating a disabled mother's right to access the same facilities as any other woman

No, both can be valid. Sometimes needs or rights conflict, and the aim should be to consider and give thought to both, or all. The disabled mother is not more or less important, than any other mother there. Women shouldn’t be shamed for being uncomfortable at exposing their body in front of men. There is a way to address it that considers everyone’s needs. I object to the OP being given a hard time because she isn’t comfortable with this.

People like are the reason why gender disparity still exists in society. God help the stay at home dads. They are despised at work. They aren’t welcome at baby groups. No wonder the women get lumped with all the childcare.

Your self consciousnesses isn't the fault of dads but is something you need to work on yourself

This is a really poor attitude and ignores the sexualisation by society, primarily by men, of women’s bodies. Particularly breasts.

This isn’t about blame. This isn’t about banning men. We should be able to have mature discussions that consider everyone’s comfort, without telling a woman she is harming men, society or that she needs to get over herself and expose her body.

Jessica she's talking about play groups, parent and baby groups, not breastfeeding groups.

We have laws that state women can breastfeed in public without being detained, deterred etc. What you are proposing is throwing back those laws and returning to a time when women can only breastfeed behind close doors.

That is the conundrum here: dads need to be more involved; women need to feel comfortable breast feeding.

In this instance the men weren't doing anything to make OP feel uncomfortable, they were just taking part in a group to which they were welcome. They weren't shaming her! So whilst OPs feelings are entirely valid they cannot be the basis of a change to the group, a banning of dads etc. Had it been a breastfeeding group for mothers and babies then that would be different!

BogglesGoggles

Women don’t get lumped with all the childcare because a woman doesn’t want to get her breasts out in front of men. That’s a childish response. It ignores the realities of a patriarchal society and the unpaid work women are expected to do. Blaming women who aren’t comfortable breastfeeding in front of men is an overreaction that ignores the complexities of the situation. Maybe we should consider the role men play in sexualising our breasts?!

The OP should find a way to deal with her own feelings not expect other people to make alterations to suit her.
In a group of 10 babies there might be 1 stay at home dad, if he cant go to a playgroup then where can he go? You cant set up a whole group for stay at home dads cause their might only be 2 in the whole area and it just isn't cost effective. When his baby is 2, are they not entitled to socialisation with their peers because the main parent is Male?
I say this as someone who has breastfed 2 children.

@BobtheMeerkat
Feelings are not valid if they are invalidating a disabled mother's right to access the same facilities as any other woman
What in earth has this got to do with breastfeeding? If it's to do with male carers or fathers being needed to support the disabled mother then what happens in situations where environment are kept single sex for privacy reasons such as communal swimming changing rooms?

It's an incredibly dangerous precedent to suggest that a woman's want or need for privacy is automatically trumped by another's disability.

What you are proposing is throwing back those laws and returning to a time when women can only breastfeed behind close doors.

I haven’t proposed anything! Nor have I once said women should only breastfeed behind closed doors! I have said her feelings are valid, as you did. I have said we should find a way to consider everyone’s feelings without shaming or excluding.

Don’t put words in my mouth please.

The OP should find a way to deal with her own feelings not expect other people to make alterations to suit her.

Really? So if a woman is not comfortable exposing her body, it’s her problem? So nobody should ever be considerate of anyone else’s feelings. What an interesting position.

But women have a biological role in the early years men do not, and a little thought given to it, without shaming any woman, is not too much to ask. That little bit of thought, IN THIS INSTANCE would be for men not to attend that specific group so that the OP, who has understandable issues around breastfeeding in public, could do so behind closed doors in female only company.

Specific to the OP ... that is what you are suggesting.

Bumpitybumper

I think it is very difficult to breastfeed if the mum is to embarrassed to feed in public. Of course no one should make a breast feeding mum feel uncomfortable but if the discomfort lies with the mum herself I'm not sure what can be done about that. If you refuse to feed in public you are going to restrict what you can do and I think you then have to consider that.

Of course you can go into feeding rooms, if they are available, but OP has said that she doesn't want to do that because she will miss out.

I don't think that she can really expect everything to be organised around her needs. Maybe she needs to attend breast feeding groups rather than these baby or stay and play groups? These play groups are for children and their carers, not women and children, so the dads should be welcome there.

Breast feeding in public is awkward to start with, and I breast fed 20 years ago when it wasn't as acceptable as it is now. Very early on I decided that I had to get comfortable with it or accept that I was going to be stuck at home so I did make myself do it at first. Very quickly I overcame the initial awkwardness and then I really didn't care who I fed in front of.

She has chosen to breastfeed that is her choice if she doesnt want to get her breast out then she shouldn't breastfeed or she should feed with a cover. The men aren't being inconsiderate by taking their babies to playgroup they are just looking after their children same as the mother is. No one was leering at her. No one said anything. No one was being inconsiderate other than the OP who doesnt want men at playgroup because she doesnt want to breastfeed in front of men. She could ask for a separate room. She cant ask to ban an entire sex.

IN THIS INSTANCE would be for men not to attend that specific group

That’s your conclusion, not mine. If the group hasn’t thought about women’s privacy, then they should.