Men at baby groups...

[Foxmuffin]

I might be BU but I’ve got a 3 month old baby and have been going to a few baby groups. I find it a bit off putting when partners/husbands join Mum and baby. I totally understand that women who have had sections will need help driving and possibly lifting things but have also know partners drop off and find a pub/cafe for the hour groups go on.

I’m EBF and I’ve been to a group of 9 where I was the only one BFing, with groups of new mums I feel comfortable just getting my boob out to feed, but when babies are on the bottle with men there I feel a bit uncomfortable and it kind of spoils it for me. I suppose if their partner is BFing I feel a bit more like they’ll understand. Please understand I’m not looking down at FF, it’s more that if Mum’s OH is used to seeing BFing and babies feeding for comfort for what can sometimes feel like most the group I feel they’ll understand.

My own DH went back to work after a week so I’ve been doing all these things on my own for some time. He has never been one to pander over either of us so I’ve had to do the food shop etc myself and get on without support (actually a little pandering would have been nice, but he’s not like that).

I’m probably being self conscious, I don’t mind feeding in public but in enclosed spaces I feel the need to be more discreet which then spoils baby bonding time which is why I go to these classes.

I was rather young when DD was born, DP had severe health issues following her EMCS (related to existing health issues) and I often took DD to group, at first it was uncomfortable, although nobody made me feel not welcome it felt like a "sacred space" for women. The welcome I was given was fabulous though, and I was too immersed in DD for it to even register mothers were breastfeeding.

Are you perhaps a bit jealous because your DH isn't helping you (he sounds a bit shit tbh) and the other dads are so involved they are going to baby groups?

menstruator That's what breastfeeding groups are for. Nobody's arguing that men should be able to attend those.

I've never ever given a biscuit before but here is one for you

My DH is a SAHD. Are he and my baby to be banned from all baby groups?

Am I to be forced to be the SAHP because men aren't allowed to participate in such things?

I actually will go against the grain and say that OP isn't being entirely unreasonable.

We live in a society that sexualises breasts. That's just the way it is and to pretend otherwise is silly. We also live in a society that promotes breastfeeding and feeding on demand can often mean a new mother has to feed her baby at groups she attends. Loads of women may be comfortable feeding in front of men or using a cover up, but some new mothers might not be and I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with that. I find it incredibly frustrating how people think that women should automatically be able to switch from a pre-baby state of viewing breasts as a private part of their body that's related to sex to a view that exposing your breasts in front of random men must be fine because you're now breastfeeding. Lots of women struggle to switch their perspective and due to embarrassment/modesty reasons feel like breastfeeding isn't a practical option for them so give up or they socially isolate themselves by avoiding public places at feeding times (which can be all the time initially). I definitely was guilty of the latter with my first child and it was very bad for my mental health.

Having said all of this, I do think that men should be allowed and encouraged to attend baby groups. I think the answer actually lies in these groups recognising that the dynamics of the group change with the introduction of men and making sure some kind of facility is available for breastfeeding mothers that would allow them to feed with some privacy.

Yabu. If you want to be part of the breastfeeding 'movement' then if you feel someone is glaring at you, and are totally sure about it, then say something- 'is everything all right? What are you looking at?'

It does sound as if it's mostly in your head. If you are looking at everyone while feeding, you will find people looking at you. I fed in front of everyone, my very conservative family I know found it uncomfortable but just carry on & look at your baby & you will find it easier.

It's really off to want no dads there.

But Bumpitybumper we also live in a society where men are seen as second class parents and women are the ones who are all hands on primary carers - when it comes to parenting gender roles are very much entrenched. Men at groups are part of the change - taking their babies to activities, being SAHP, being their primary carer. They are bucking societal expectations much more than OP is. Several commenters have said they or their partners were made to feel unwelcome, as women we should look at our own behaviour in order to help society see men and women can be equal parents.

OP - does your DH go to the groups with your DC when he has time off work?

@Chippychipsforme
But Bumpitybumper we also live in a society where men are seen as second class parents and women are the ones who are all hands on primary carers - when it comes to parenting gender roles are very much entrenched. Men at groups are part of the change - taking their babies to activities, being SAHP, being their primary carer. They are bucking societal expectations much more than OP is. Several commenters have said they or their partners were made to feel unwelcome, as women we should look at our own behaviour in order to help society see men and women can be equal parents
I understand that and agree with your sentiment, however breastfeeding isn't an area where we can achieve true equality so we need to think long and hard about how we can protect a woman's right to breastfeed in way that they feel happy and comfortable AND facilitate men to attend these groups too. You can't ask breastfeeding mothers to put aside their concerns or privacy just because this makes men attending these kinds of groups a bit more of a complex issues.

1 Men and women are biologically different and some women do not feel comfortable breastfeeding in front of men.

1. Men should be equal parents and encouraged to be involved and engaged fathers.

I think both of the above statements can be true and solutions could be devised that support both groups of people.

@peachgreen I absolutely do think men should be able to attend breastfeeding groups! Perhaps not the ones where you just sit around feeding, chatting and drinking tea. But definitely the ones where you go to get support and advice while establishing breastfeeding. I never would have managed to breastfeed without my husbands support, it took both of us to get the baby latched and we both needed to be shown how to do that.

OP, this post makes me feel so sad for DH. He is a SAHD and worries about going to baby groups in case women don't want him there. I don't want him to be stuck at home with no support group around him, not should my baby miss out. In your world, where would SAHDs go?

Clearly it's not on that you were made uncomfortable for BF, but this is not a male specific issue. I have been made to feel uncomfortable by women too. Not allowing men to attend is not the answer.

{1 Men and women are biologically different and some women do not feel comfortable breastfeeding in front of men.

1. Men should be equal parents and encouraged to be involved and engaged fathers.

I think both of the above statements can be true and solutions could be devised that support both groups of people.}

In the 'playgroup' I attended most weeks, the mothers wishing to feed and were concerned simply turned their chairs around so their backs were to the main part of the hall. Hardly difficult.

I'm sure someone has already pointed this out but if you are breastfeeding you will have to do it all different places, can't banish men from them all. What about the stay at home dads or the grandads (like the 2 that go to one of our local groups) should they not take the children they are looking after out?
I think you need to get over yourself.

Men and women are biologically different and some women do not feel comfortable breastfeeding in front of men.

So what do those women do when out in public and the baby is hungry? Let them cry until they are in a women only space? Or feed the baby like everyone else does?

If the op, or any woman for that matter, is so conscious they won't feed their baby around a male that is their issue.

I want to be part of the whole empowerment of BF women movement.

And how is that being achieved by insisting bf should only be done in private and men can't be trusted around a bfing mother? It needs to be normalised, not put on a pedestal so the bf saints can shame parents who formula feed and claim all men make them uncomfortable.

We live in a society that sexualises breasts
If that’s the reason for not wanting to bf then surely gay dads are fine and you need to ban lesbian mums?

Give it time OP. Honestly the dads couldn't care less how you feed your baby, even if their partners are bottle feeding. I know it's daunting at first and it's such a shame that you had that negative experience of the tutter (who sounds like a complete idiot), but hopefully soon you'll feel more comfortable and will see that 99.99% of the population don't bat an eyelid at breastfeeding. Hope you feel a bit more confident soon.

@1tisILeClerc
In the 'playgroup' I attended most weeks, the mothers wishing to feed and were concerned simply turned their chairs around so their backs were to the main part of the hall. Hardly difficult
What about if you have another toddler that's needs some level of supervision? What if the room isn't set up in a way that would make this practical (a few groups I attend are like this)?

@codenameduchess
*So what do those women do when out in public and the baby is hungry? Let them cry until they are in a women only space? Or feed the baby like everyone else does?

If the op, or any woman for that matter, is so conscious they won't feed their baby around a male that is their issue*
How incredibly supportive of you! So basically unless a woman is willing to feed in public then they shouldn't breastfeed or shouldn't leave the house? And we wonder why breastfeeding rates in this country are so low.

Men have helped to sexualise breasts and make exposing breasts in any other situation other than breastfeeding a complete taboo. To say that the embarrassment and awkwardness that some women may feel as a result of this attitude when breastfeeding is an issue for women to deal with is pretty disgusting. It's an issue we should all be helping to tackle and trying to shame women for their understandable worries and discomfort is incredibly misogynistic in my view.

And how is that being achieved by insisting bf should only be done in private and men can't be trusted around a bfing mother? It needs to be normalised, not put on a pedestal so the bf saints can shame parents who formula feed and claim all men make them uncomfortable
Nobody has suggested that men can't be trusted around breastfeeding women or that breastfeeding mothers are saints. I think the fact you have even written this says a lot about you and your attitudes to breastfeeding mothers.

So basically unless a woman is willing to feed in public then they shouldn't breastfeed or shouldn't leave the house?
I don’t see any other option though? You need to bf regularly so you can either stay at home and do it, or go out and do it in public. Please tell me what the other option is!

@RaptorWhiskers
If that’s the reason for not wanting to bf then surely gay dads are fine and you need to ban lesbian mums?
How ridiculous! Yes body parts have been sexualised and deemed "private parts" but people's desire to be amongst people of the same sex whilst they are in a state of undress isn't unique to breastfeeding.

Look if we were all happy to expose our body parts to the opposite sex then we wouldn't bother segregating swimming pool changing rooms etc by sex, so many patients wouldn't opt for health practitioners of the same sex and we would be happy with mixed sex wards.

I don't think breastfeeding women are worried that men will be overcome by desire upon seeing their breasts. It isn't that so the sexual orientation thing is a complete red herring. It's much more complex than that!

Apologies in advance if I am missing something (I may well be!) but why does a cover not just provide an easy solution for everyone?

@RaptorWhiskers
I don’t see any other option though? You need to bf regularly so you can either stay at home and do it, or go out and do it in public. Please tell me what the other option is!
I used to frequent places with feeding rooms etc pretty frequently such as John Lewis. This meant that I could feed the baby in private and continue shopping etc.

A similar idea could be set up in groups just to give women the option.

I thought the exact same as you at first - but was a massive hypocrite because I needed (and wanted) my DH there after my c section (he couldn't have sat in a pub as I couldn't bend to lift, change nappies, drink water etc).

By the time dd was about 12 weeks old, and I'd accidentally left a boob out and flashed the postman a few times, I can honestly say it didn't bother me at all. And no one even noticed or cared what I was doing. Everyone goes a bit boob blind after a while.

Only time it was awkward was when I'd be feeding and someone would come over for a chat, not realising, and stroke the baby's head their wives would always mortified. As you and your baby get more experienced at breastfeeding it gets more and more subtle. So most of the time, people genuinely don't know or notice.

OP i get you've had a bad experience. I breastfeed and find the tops with a flap across the front much easier than 2 layers.

My DH is now a stay at home dad for 3 months. He's doing the baby groups and classes but he's terrified. Terrified he'll upset someone, no one will talk to him because he's a man, he feels so socially uncomfortable. He is definitely not looking at bf mums.

He doesn't go to the breastfeeding support group for obvious reasons but does the music classes and drop in groups.

I think the dads will be more nervous than you and mortified if they knew you were uncomfortable.

@Bumpitybumper I have been, and will be again soon, a breastfeeding mother. I support breastfeeding mothers completely but this attitude and behaviour of being embarrassed and insisting that it's not ok to feed in public is counter productive and holding us all back. My dh was singled out and made so uncomfortable he didn't go to any groups with our baby because of this ridiculous fear and hatred of men doing anything with children.

I have fed everywhere, shops, parks, restaurants, baby groups, the street, other people's houses, waiting rooms- if I was there baby probably needed feeding, what good would being squeamish have done?