To choose not to work after DC? Why?

[Marghe87]

I totally get it. Childcare costs are ridiculous, better to spend time with the family than with colleagues as those years will never come back etc... But, in the long run, aren't the risks too high?
I mean, being a SAHP means:

• giving up one extra income that can make a big difference in a family life (ie: being able to afford a better house, family activities, travels, pay for the children's education etc... obv it is different for those with a partner that earns a big enough salary to cover all the above)
• giving up a job/career that was build with efforts and dedication and no longer being financially independent
• putting the future of the family at risk in case the working partner either: decides to leave you, dies, gets ill, loses his/her job etc
• stop paying into your pension which means a very low income later in life
• what happens when the kids are older and no longer need you at home all the time?

I don't mean to be harsh will all of the above but I am really keen to understand why a person (90% of the times a woman) feels like giving up their job is the best option for themselves and their families in the long run.

I'd like to hear from women that made different choices.

What, staying at home? And it isn't gender ideology: it's a fact. Women: "I have had a child, should I go back to work, if so, should I go back full time?" Men: ------

Women normally give birth to the child, have a long postnatal period of recovery and normally take the maternity leave. Thus 9 months down the line the father has usually settled into life as working father.

So it makes sense the onus is usually on the woman and if it makes sense for her why shouldn’t she stay with her child.

It’s nothing to do with men keeping women down or whatever you want to imply.

Could it be that nature, through millennia of evolution, has decreed that women have wombs and men don’t?

Could it actually be that fucking simple?

Could it ever be possible that women won’t judge other women for being lazy, stupid, emancipated, wasteful, detrimental to the economy if they don’t work?

It's true I'm not going to lie awake at night worrying about them

However, you don't appear to understand what I am saying. We have things we do and things we do not do because of societal expectations. Most of us would not urinate or defecate in public for example. We would not have loud arguments in public. We don't shove in queues. OK, some of these things are technically illegal but for the most part we don't do them because of adverse reactions from others.

Men are not giving up work when they have children. Only in exceptional circumstances and even then only usually until the children are school age. Single fathers are very very rare which accounts for some of that, but what I'm asking is, why is it women stay home and men don't? The answers I've had here relate to careers already going nowhere - and bearing in mind these women would probably have been under 35 when having their first, that's sad. Only qualifying for minimum wage despite high levels of education. Reliance on a man since - what - early 20s? Sorry, but however you dress that up, it's not great, is it?

It's not a dig on individuals: their lives are probably pleasanter and less stressful than mine I'm talking in a general sense.

I'm judging no one. I'm asking questions.

"although DH and I have degrees (often meeting at university on the same course) his career flew while mine went nowhere. I had children, and there was no reason to go back."

Lets say men and women actually do have different priority distributions (where those differing priorities lead to different choices) as in the attached picture: lets say women are the green line and men are the red. We can argue until the cows come home whether that is due to social conditioning or due to other factors or both and in what combinations. But really, does it matter? Why does it matter? If a woman has the capacity legally and socially to make the choices she wants based on her individual priorities why should it matter that she have the "right" ones in your schema?

If anything the only sad thing is that it is socially harder for a man to make choices according to his priorities - but if that bothers men so much they can struggle against it just like women struggled to be allowed proper careers (which no-one can deny they have won the right to).

Well the simple answer to your question is exactly that women have wombs and men don’t.

Of course it matters. It matters because while the societal expectation is that men earn money and women stay home, we are in deep vulnerable collective shit as women, no matter how nice your DH is on an individual basis.

You are injecting gender ideology again.

Who cares if there is a difference between men or women when it comes to staying home or not?

Most women are not being stopped from returning from work by anybody.

What would be your ideal? We all went back to work even though it doesn’t make sense financially?

My ideal would be that earning money, housework, and raising the children is shared

Equally. Or as equal as possible.

Oh I get it you’re a feminist....

I’m not in a collective anything thank you!

Because the utter, UTTER and unrelenting misery of trying to juggle it all outweighs all those things at the time. You know the risks but you take them anyway.

Someone’s got to look after the children & quite frankly I would rather it be me. Having a high flying career & loads of money isn’t everything, I don’t care at all that I don’t have a career. Maybe one day I’ll regret it if I split with my DH but my point is I never wanted a career anyway. Money and status don’t motivate me at all & I will never regret having that time with my children when they were little. That’s just me, not everyone feels like they’ve given up their ambitions to have children & not all men force women to make that choice. As far as I see it we are a family & my role at home is just as valid as any financial contribution I could bring. It works for us as a family & that’s all that matters.

Not always possible is it. What if my job involves an hour commute and 40hrs a week and my partner has a 5 minute commute and 38 hrs a week?

Do I then insist I do less washing up or just stop cooking tea or changing nappies when my times up?

I think your questions are fair enough OP.
I work part time (2.5 days a week) so I can pick up my DC from school etc.

I often worry if I'm doing the right thing. And what would happen to me if DH wasn't around. It is a concern.
But the guilt i would feel leaving my DC in childcare after school all the time and not being around so much would be horrible. I feel I can't win to be quite honest.

To have money and potentially independence or my DC's early years. Who knows if I'm doing the right thing or even what the right thing is.

Of course it matters. It matters because while the societal expectation is that men earn money and women stay home, we are in deep vulnerable collective shit as women, no matter how nice your DH is on an individual basis.

Everyone is vulnerable. Actual independence in real terms is neither desirable nor possible. Human achievement is built on our interdependency. Seeking independence as a means to avoid vulnerability is a fools errand that leads no-where - every single aspect of society that really alleviates human vulnerability (though never eliminates it!) comes down to humans working together and relying on one another in a seemingly fragile yet surprisingly robust system of interdependencies.

I was happy to be a sahm as we both felt out kids were better at home with a parent in the early years. Dh's profession paid more than mine. 🤷 We had two kids close together, then a gap and then bonus #3 6 yrs later. In the interim I worked part time in an unrelated field and home educated the older kids. Now #3 is nearly 18 months I'm looking at re-entering work and/or considering some retraining to up my skills a bit.

To be honest it was the best thing for the family. Yes it was a pain in the arse at times, but equally it meant that when it was obv school wasn't working for #1 we could pull her out no issues as there was no juggling to do, when #3 surprised us we had no response concerns etc

Artfully
Most women I know couldn't care less about your societal expectation. It's not true anyway, women who want to work do so, some work for nothing for a few years to enable them to continue their career. These women couldn't give a stuff about your supposed societal expectation either.
If a parent is unable to work and doesn't have the opportunity, or free choice this is what needs to be addressed, not those who can choose and decide on a sahp.

I wanted to be there when they were tiny the nurseries I saw were depressing, Dh earns a lot. I took 5 years out to be sahm now working flexibly earning extremely decent salary.. My girls are very happy and secure. I loved my time at home with them you dont get that back. Very happy with my choices thanks for asking

Worth noting that there were times pre kids that I out earned/subsidised DH. He returned to a higher paying profession in order to allow one of us to stay home. At times we worked part time around each other, he has changed jobs to lower paying ones because it made him happy etc so he certainly hasn't been chained to a grindstone.

We are both feminists too btw.

Did you say that with a disgusted expression lb?

Too right. And proud to be.

OK, I'm obviously talking about a utopia here, but let's just imagine this. I am a teacher (ace, yeah, I know, I know ) and I'm a HOD of a core subject, so I don't actually earn bad money.

There are loads of female teachers in my school with preschool kids; I'm the only FT one. They are all classroom teachers. Why aren't they HODs?

Because part time doesn't allow them to be HOD, so they drop down two days and less money because less time in work but also they've effectively said "I am going no further in my career." OK, no issue with that.

The (male) deputy head has three young children, meanwhile. No idea what his wife does, but why are there numerous women working and earning less than half he does when they both have exactly the same starting qualification and same family situation?

Do you get what I am saying? There is no reason a woman aged 40, with a three year old and a five year old, a 2:1 degree and a PGCE shouldn't be deputy head - but instead it is a man.

That's the societal expectation. Yes, it might have been the woman's choice. But let me make a third suggestion? How about we adapt the workplace? Why can't the deputy head be a job share? As long as someone is deputy head for five days a week does it matter if it is Mr A for three days one week and two days the next and Mrs B the same the following week, or whatever works? Both Mr A and Mrs B get to spend time with their young children, boom, ace.

M A's kids realise dads raise kids. Mrs B's kids realise mums do important jobs and spend time with their families.

OK, yeah, it's utopia land. But we could start, couldn't we? At least try? Otherwise, nothing is going to change and maybe you think that's not a problem. I think it is a problem, because I think a lot of women are very vulnerable and - I don't care that I'm repeating myself - sole reliance on another is dangerous.

We don’t have kids yet (been trying for a long time!) but when we do, I’ll be staying at work with childcare and family babysitting + DH dropping hours. We think. Ideally I’d like to give up a day, and DH will give up 2 to 3 days, but once we’ve done the sums it might make more sense for him to drop more time and me to stay full time. I have a career and a good pension, and he has a much lower paid job and the most basic pension his employer is obliged to offer. He would also have more flexibility to reduce hours and then get them back as kids get older, whereas I’d have to sign mine away and not go back to full time until a full time position opened up.

Literally every family’s situation is different, so I don’t think you can really compare. My mum quit her career for an evening supermarket job, while my dad stayed full time, and then my mum retrained into a different career when we were all in school. I don’t know many couples who have been able to have one give up work completely to raise kids, but if you can and want to (I know some who just wouldn’t want to) then why not? No one should be judged by anyone else, if they’re doing what’s best for their own situation.

Also this doom mongering that if you take a few years off you will never work again. Utter bollocks.

I'm more concerned about those who apparently weren't working or weren't really earning prior to kids tbh, but in some fields it can be tricky working your way back in.