4 yo keeps really hurting baby brother

[Verrie69]

My 4 yo has witnessed some violence from his father and has always been shy and more of an introvert from this he started school this year and he seems to have got much better he saw someone for 12 weeks when his father was arrested and that was the longest they could give him especially as he had improved. My baby boy is 3 months and is really hard work he cries and cries and there's nothing wrong with him I can't always cuddle him and I don't enjoy sitting cuddling him when he's screaming and doesn't stop. I let him calm in his crib and I take myself away for a bit as I find it very hard im unsure if my eldest has sort of seen how i am finding it hard when he cries but he tends to hurt baby his dad was never around for the baby so he can't have seen from his dad. But my 3 mo has had scratches and little pinch bruises on him when questioned he always admits he did it but since I've been telling him off for it he lies. It's also so simple to say oh never leave them alone they are along when I go to the toilet or have a bath if baby is crying I cannot have him in the same room after i have tried everything so he is alone then too although that is easier as I keep eldest distracted also yesterday they stayed at neighbours house after a bit of an emergency and he had come home with more marks the neighbour looked at me really oddly and said that "your baby needs to see a doctor" really rudely i think she completely judged me and I don't know what she was implying I just don't know how to solve this

You will be entitled to 15 hours free childcare (if you are in UK). Is your eldest son in a childcare setting? If so what have they said? If he isn't in childcare, why not get him registered?

Two minutes alone will have to be sacrificed for the safety of your baby.

If you cannot keep the baby safe you will need to speak to someone. Reach out for help.

If the babies injuries get picked up by the GP or HV etc you could be blamed for them. Either with a presumption that you did them, or that you allowed it to happen (which you have)

You need to put a stop to this now.

Can people please be gentle and supportive? The OP posted yesterday in a really bad way. She needs support and help.

Verrie - your 4 year old has been through a lot and now there is a new baby crying and taking your attention. He’s bound to be unsettled. He needs lots of positive attention. Also talk to the school. They can help with a referral for counselling I think.

Please take baby at least to see the GP he could have broken bones or other injuries that are making him inconsolable. I was terrified when I had my youngest because my son with autism had extreme challenging behaviour. You really do need to make sure you have one or the other of them with you at all times. It's hard work but the alternative could be something neither you nor your children ever get over.

Unless you've been through PND or really struggling with a newborn, don't comment shitty things like 'dream on' about the bath. She's not in there pampering herself, it's a survival technique.

@Verrie69 asking for help is one of the hardest parts but you can get help for yourself (like antidepressants potentially) which will help you cope. Having a bath and leaving them together isn't an option. And whilst the HV was right to emphasise making time for yourself, I don't think they would advise what you're doing under the circumstances.

I think my HV mentioned bruises under 1 need to be reported(?). So it's really important you make the GP aware of this. If someone else reports it, it could add a lot of additional stress for you all.

The baby needs to be checked urgently for a start. And it's vital you get this sorted, I don't want to upset you but the first years are so vital in a child's life. I know you mentioned above wanting to ensure the baby has a chance to not remember any of this ... They may not remember the DV etc but will have this new violence and reason to be scared if you don't ensure it doesn't happen.

If you ask for help, all 3 of you will benefit

I understand how frustrating it is when you can't stop the baby crying but if there is a chance that he is injured you must get him checked out and speak to your GP and your health visitor.

There have been times when mine were little that I felt I had no option but to put them in the cot and walk away for two minutes while I calmed down. But I would never have left them with a young sibling, especially if there was a risk that the baby could be hurt in any way.

Can you put the baby in the pram and take them out for a walk? I know it is a hassle getting them both dressed and out but you can not risk the baby getting hurt. Going outside can help restless babies to settle, a walk can tire your 4yr old and just being outside can help to lift your mood.

But above all please speak to someone in real life - health visitor or gp. Do you have any friends who could come and help? Someone who could take the baby out for an hour or so?

Agreed @Peridot1

I really hope you and your children are OK OP

And yes, baby needs checking for broken bones.

I agree.

Please speak to your HV.

Unless you've been through PND or really struggling with a newborn, don't comment shitty things like 'dream on' about the bath
I have been through PND. I’ve struggled more than I’d have believed possible. I’ve literally been on the verge of insanity. But I have never once compromised the safety of my baby or put my needs before his. I don’t think PND is an excuse for risking your baby’s life and letting him be injured.

@tiredtiddlytubby I was sectioned because of PND does that make me eligible to post?
Baby does need seeing by a GP because he might have broken bones. OP needs to see a gp to get support for PND and 4yo needs to see GP for help with his behaviour.
Two minutes in a bath is not going to prevent OP's breakdown but could be disastrous for her children. Rather than seeing that as a solution OP needs real help and support and the GP is the starting point.

Tired

Yes I have been there too and like PPs have said didn’t do this.
Don’t be what you are accusing other people of doing. That’s not just shitty it’s hypocritical

The fact is the OP needs to act

So much helpful info im sorry if i sound awful i write these posts when i don't feel great. I have checked over my little boy and he doesnt have anything noticeable i dont know what my neighbour meant and honestly i know everyone will judge me but i don't know my neighbour very well but she was the only person i could think of leaving them with. i am going to visit my doctor and have a talk with him it's all too much and i think seeing him would be good to talk some things through he is a good doctor. I love my boys so much. Yes they have the same dad and hes currently in prison so he cant help. I dont have family and just wish i did just so i had someone who could tell me what to do right and be there for me. i think ill try and get a long appointment and go through everything but I really need some help like physical help and the homestart thing seems really helpful do i just call them or what

Unless you've been through PND

I did so am I eligible to post? OP needs help for her 4yo and needs to get her baby to the GP asap to get looked at!

A 2 minute bath is not going to help with any off the OPs problems.

It sounds really tough for you but well done for arranging to see the doctor, things will improve for all three of you with the right help.

You can enter your postcode on the website to find your nearest Homestart www.home-start.org.uk/find-your-nearest-home-start

Well done Verrie. Make that appointment now.

I don’t know about homestart but I think a call to your HV would be a good start. Your HV should be able to support you too.

You can do it.

Get an appointment and take it from there.

Yeah, I'm sorry but in this situation you can't have time to yourself. A lot of people live that way and cope. You will too. But obviously thay isn't a solution. You need to get some specialist treatment for your four year old.

It's so unhelpful to say i cant have time to myself it helps me cope even just 2 minutes and i really do have to obviously most of the time i dont have time to myself

You don't seem to understand OP that you cannot have time to yourself if this means leaving your 3 month old in danger. Your needs DO NOT come before your DS potentially being hurt.

Please seek help immediately before your son kills or seriously injures him. Phone social services for help they will be able to put you in touch with Homestart

I do understand but I give them my whole life I just have to have a few minutes so i can actually be there for them

No, not if it means leaving your 3m old where his brother can hurt him. You can't leave him anywhere near him. Being hit and pinched and god knows what else when you're not there is abuse, you know this abuse is happening yet you don't take measures to stop it. You need to change this OP your baby isn't safe.

OP, no word of a lie a lady i used to live in the same street as had the same problem. Im sorry to say it actually turned out awfully (would have made the news about 14 years ago) her 5 year old put a pillow over his newborn baby sisters face, the baby didnt die but was permanently brain damaged. The mother was made to make the heart wrenching decision to CHOOSE between her children as the two kids couldnt stay living together. She now has a 14 year old disabled child.

You are worrying me insisting that your "2 minutes" is needed...
what more than the life of your child? I do sympathise .. but your not doing enough to stop it and clearly not watching them enough. You NEED to see your HV and tell them the truth.

I didnt want to tell you the story above , its horrible. But i thin you need to hear it. No cotton wool wrapping here sorry.

Your baby could potentially lose his life for those two minutes in the bath, yet you're still justifying it as essential. Sorry, I know you're struggling but that horrifies me and makes me seriously question your judgement ability as a parent at this point. It's just excuses after excuses as to why you have to leave them alone. Please get help for their sake.

If you can't keep him safe OP ask social services to have him fostered out. You're making me really angry with this 'I need 2 minutes' bullshit. You're selfish

And this is exactly why i wanted to give my kids up because this is what i mean for gods sake. I cannot cope if i dont even have 2 minutes it stops me from having a breakdown in front of my eldest i literally cannot cope at all

@verrie69 - at some point, hopefully very soon, you will have more than 2 minutes alone. But right now, that 2 minutes could be enough for your 4 year old to seriously harm your baby. This would be a tragedy for all three of you. Both of them need your protection right now, and when your HV said it was ok she was meaning if the baby cried for two minutes, not if the baby is at risk of harm (and your 4 year old is at risk of doing harm that he will not truly want or understand).

A child in my family died this way - a jealous older brother threw the washing in her bassinet, she suffocated. The family fell apart. Please, they need you. Or if you really aren't able to do that, be honest with the gp, HV and agree what needs to happen next, as maybe the baby needs to be somewhere else for a little.