"We shouldn't tell new parents what life is like after the birth, it'll only scare them"...

[fillyjonk]

said a high-ranking NCT co-volunteer to me today

I think this is crappy on so many levels

If we can prepare women for the birth, an intense and highly subjective experience, then SURELY we can prepare them for life with a newborn. Breastfeeding classes (and I mean a proper in depth course, NOT a half hour slotted into the NCT classes, tricks for soothing a screaming baby, a proper discussion of depression/isolation etc etc after birth...NONE of these are really covered properly in NCT classes, let alone NHS classes.

Oh I dunno, what do you all think?

My LO is 12 weeks old and when I first had her I felt like such a failure. I had sooo much info about the mechanics of birth, but not about the pressures of being a mum. I was (and in many ways still am) so naive!

All I was told was "you sleep when baby sleeps". You don;t think to ask - "but what about those days when she doesn't sleep...?"

I was led to believe bf would be natural, easy and painless, and my experiences to the contrary led to me stopping after 3 weeks. Now I find that what I was experiencing was normal, so I have ff guilt!

And no-one told me that you barely get time to pee, never mind shower, eat, or god forbid cook a meal.

I felt really low (not depressed, but not far off), for at least 6 weeks. I do feel that for me to have been told that all of the above is 100% normal would have made me feel a lot better, and helped me enjoy things a tiny bit more.

I do wholeheartedly disagree re pnd. If you experience it, its HARD to a. recongise that you have it and b. seek help. I think everyone else can put up with a bit of scaring so as to benefit those who do go on to develop pnd, a truly horrible experience. More needs to be done in this area. ideally a well resourced post natal support system funded and co ordinated by the NHS.

hcc I am not having a dig at antenatal teachers, honestly. I KNOW about the training, I've seriously considered doing it but have come to the same conclusions as lulu, but this comment, which I DO find
patronising, has really been the end of the line for me and the NCT.

I DO think there is MUCH variation between teachers and unfortunately some are shockigly piss poor. I can think of one who, if she HAS had training in the last 20 years (oh I know she HAS, I know), she has slept through it.

The problem IMO is that there can be quite a wide variety of quite random speakers, who can very easily come out with something a bit inappropriate, like guess's scary pnd woman.

I just can't get my head around the idea that we should not be preparing women for life post birth. 8 weeks of classes devoted to a day in your life, and NOTHING to cover the months following it.

And the fact that women forget info for post birth-well thats a matter of delivery, really. If they can't take it in, fine, write it down.

btw am NOT having a go at the NCT at all. Well a bit, but ONLY because I volunteer with them so they are where I have experience. I also do some stuff with the NHS and am not even going to get started there-there aren't even any antenatal classes RUNNING here atm. So everyone who wants them has to use the NCT and thusly pay( -at paying, not NCT)

I can fully imagine that couples/women don't take in the information in NCT classes or whatever about life with a brand new baby. It's like there isn't any room in your brain, isn't it? It's all 'labour labour labour'.
TBH the best approach to it I saw in my active birth class was when 4 brand new mothers (veterans of the class) came in and we rotated round them in small groups and got to ask them questions and they were very thoughtful and answered I think honestly. They were all breastfeeding in front of us as well though that part was rather glossed over [odd].
It's the knowing what's normal isn't it? My advice to new mothers is to expect to be sitting on the sofa for some number of weeks and not to see the first trip to the supermarket as some pinnacle of achievement.

thats a really good way to do it, pruuuni.

And yes its about knowing whats normal and what isn't

Yes when I attended a-n classes with the NCT for my second birth I was amazed at how the only focus was on the birth (and a little bit about b/feeding) but nothing about the emotional aftermath. Luckily I knew having previously had a child but the first-timers were really shocked/surprised by the reality (including I must say, the reality of the actual birth)

IN response to comments further down the thread: what's wrong with telling women what the spectrum of 'normal' is? Yes you might sail through it. Or equally you might find yourself elated but basically weeping from exhaustion every night by 6pm. And that if the latter, it passes once your body adjusts to the new regime. What's the big deal with keeping that a secret?

i really have felt this as a class supporter, camelia

and its what the (informal) feedback is saying.

I don't want this to turn into an anti-NCT thing but i think the NCT's problem here is that they are very big on providing post natal support via the GROUPS.

This is not appropriate for all women. A fair percent DO do the classes to get information, not to make lifelong buddies. Perfectly fair IMO.

I have no problem telling women what the spectrum of normal is. I just think they need practical help more than information. Being told that it's normal to feel tired and emotional isn't helpful. What is helpful is a kind word and a cup of tea and someone to cuddle the baby while you catch some sleep. And when you wake up, the baby is clean and changed and you give it a feed and then eat the meal someone else has made. A doula. A friend. Your mother if she's the right sort. Female help for a few weeks after the birth. That's what I wanted. And that's what I'd arrange for my daughter to have.

Yes the practical stuff is great as well nkf, but most of my women friends have wanted to talk about how they feel post-birth

"Being told that it's normal to feel tired and emotional isn't helpful. "

actually i think it IS, NKF. Because a lot of people simply don't realise it, and think they are going through the experience alone.

I find it shocking how many well educated, bright women just don't realise that is it NORMAL for life to spiral out of control, to feel weepy, to not want to gaze adoringly at the newborn 24/7, to want their life back sometimes and feel bone crushingly guilty about it

I 100% agree that more post birth support is needed. Absolutely. But its not an either/or.

In fact, the more women are aware that they are about to face a big demanding change, the more likely they are to put this sort of help in place, eg by hiring a doula.

Wanting to talk about it isn't the same as being giving information.

I doubt that we're arguing. I'm not suggesting that there should be some conspiracy of silence around childbirth and tiredness, just that women are often left alone to cope with a new baby and that's a shame.

I was told that I would be tired. I remember very clearly someone I trust telling me that life with a new baby was exhausting and that I would be up all day and all night. So I clocked it and remembered it. But then it hit me and the information was no help because to feel that level of tiredness is so different from knowing that you will. It didn't help me cope. Second time around, I knew to hire in help.

I just think that the practicalties of having a baby/child are so focussed on to the detriment of the psychological experience

i really do wholeheartedly agree on that point, nkf.

i suppose i think that the seeds for that can be laid pre birth. And its pragmatics, really. women at highest risk for pnd are those without family help, among other things. So if they can be prepared at least to have an idea of what is normal and accept that they WILL get through it...

Yes, its the conspiracy of silence that annoys me.

ah but thats not really helpful information, imo, nkf

its like saying "when you give birth it hurts". How helpful is that?

What you need is IDEAS, a kind of toolbox to approach the problem. That is the purpose of nct classes, to equip you with a toolbox to try to solve the problems of childbirth in some ways-and also to know what is normal, what is a given, like the fact that it will, without pain relief, hurt.

I am proposing the same, really. And not really focussing on the practicalities of chilcare, though these are IME useful to help people feel in control.

Ok so, talking about lack of sleep, talking about how some parents feel as a result of lack of sleep, and some strategies which people use to get sleep.

it does occur to me that she who can now be named sells so well, in part, because she DOES address these questions.

Haven't read the whole thread but when I was pregnant for the first time I couldn't really prepare for after the birth because that was all I was really focussed on. I kind of thought the hard part would be over then. What was I on?

We absolutely should tell people I think and tell them where to get advice and help and support.

I did the NHS classes and the NCT classes. In our area you're not supposed to get a place on the NHS classes if you're doing NCT because they save the NHS for those who aren't doing anything else, they forgot to ask me when I booked so I got both.

The NHS classes were FAR FAR superior. Their sessions were actually tailored to the local hospital - eg whether you can move from birthing centre to main delivery, what drugs you're allowed in birthing centre, what policy is on parking charges, partner can bring in take away meals, where the out of hours buzzer is etc etc. The NCT "teacher" knew NONE of this - I ended up doing a Q and A session for my NCT class myself. Bearing in mind this "teacher" has been teaching in this area for donkey's years AND bearing in mind the NCT classes were all most people were allowed I was appalled.

We were also really clueless before we had DD about the practicalities of nappy changing etc (I'd never SEEN a nappy before I had DD). When I asked NCT teacher if we'd be covering that sort of thing she said (and I quote) "Just trust your instincts as a parent" WTF!!!! Instincts are all very well but some information helps! She also went on to plug the post-natal course and I got a strong impression she was trying to sell more courses. That impression was confirmed when she turned up to our class reunion (after we'd all had babies) and didn't ask anyone how birth went, whether classes were useful, what the babies were called - she just wasn't interested. The really shocking thing I've subsequently discovered is that this teacher is really high up in the NCT hierachy and trains other teachers (God help 'em).

Luckily I did get a really tight knit group of friends out of it but I do struggle to recommend the NCT classes to anyone else.

Sorry for such a long post but no one from NCT has ever asked what we thought of the course or how to improve it and I find it quite cathartic to write it all down here.

"I kind of thought the hard part would be over then. "

YES!

and this is exactly the line being peddled by a lot of antenatal classes, IMO

god it CAN'T be to sell more courses, surely not? Thats awful!

I guess this thread goes to show that people want different things when they have a baby. Some people want information preferably given by medical experts and backed up by books and others want something more informal and practical.

I think people should have access to honest information so they don't end up feeling failures at the whole new parent thing when it gets tricky...as it inevitably does.

I don't like it when people - already parents - gleefully bombard expectant parents with horror stories though. I had some of that - it was upsetting but for some reason people do it.

But is it information that stops women from feeling like failures. I think it's reassurance and help from someone you trust. "You're doing great. Look at your lovely baby. Now get some sleep. I'll stick the laundry in."

Now of course that won't help women who have PND or women whose babies are very sick and need specialist care. But I'm convinced it's people that women need at that time in their lives. Just some support and rest and looking after so you can get on with learning to look after your baby.

Information is easy to get hold of. There's stacks of it around. NHS, NCT, books, the Internet. We have access to a range of information that our mothers never had. What there isn't enough of is care.

My friends who don't get have children see the highs and they also see the lows.

I would never not tell someone the truth, - that it's absolutley draining, the hardest work imaginable, exhausting, mentally and physically, life will never be the ame again, my head is full of a million things - none of which are nice things for me, I go to bed exhausted every night, it can be utterly boring and painful sometimes and I want to be on my own and not hassled by children and all they come with, that I put my head in my hands several times a day and think 'oh what now'.

I also tell them it's the best thing I ever did andthe best thing they'll ever do,

I have been pondering this some more. I don't actually think there is a conspiracy of silence. I knew, before the birth, to expect to feel tired and emotional, but lots of the repercussions of that I had to work out for myself.
I think there is room on the market tbh for a semi-humourous Kaz Cooke style Rough Guide to -specifically- the first three months. You know, checklists of stupid things people say and how to react. What it's like to be gloriously mental for a while. Practical solutions to potential problems. Really good coverage of what's normal when getting breastfeeding established. Why confinement was or wasn't a good idea. How to psych yourself up for 6 weeks on the sofa.