"We shouldn't tell new parents what life is like after the birth, it'll only scare them"...

[fillyjonk]

said a high-ranking NCT co-volunteer to me today

I think this is crappy on so many levels

If we can prepare women for the birth, an intense and highly subjective experience, then SURELY we can prepare them for life with a newborn. Breastfeeding classes (and I mean a proper in depth course, NOT a half hour slotted into the NCT classes, tricks for soothing a screaming baby, a proper discussion of depression/isolation etc etc after birth...NONE of these are really covered properly in NCT classes, let alone NHS classes.

Oh I dunno, what do you all think?

possibly got carried away then - in answer to the op yes, we could do better, and it would help, but it'll never paint the real picture

Agree hatwoman - but those are all emotional words - I think we can be prepared better practically iyswim.
It takes a long time IME to get the lie of the land emotionally, as well. You're just such a different person afterwards. That's hard, I think. I wonder how many of us grieve a little for the people we once were?

not all emotional - "pain" and "tired" aren't. "relentless" is perhaps half and half. And I did mean it practically as well as emotionally. and in some pretty primitive way I found that labour and having children brings the emotional and practical much closer together. aspects of thh whole experience and how I felt didn;t really fall into either camp...or maybe both?

I found the responsibility over whelming. You are given this tiny perfect little being who is utterly dependant on you the breast feeding mother for their well being.

You are the mother you are their champion you are supposed to know what is wrong with them.

I felt like i had to be competely in control and coping at all times in front of others. I felt judged (and lacking) and hopelessly out of control a lot of times.

You are now longer a free agent you cannot do anything for yourself unless it suits the small person attached to you.

I looked into my babies eyes and knew I couldn't fail her and I would do anything I could to make her happy. And when they are happy and you look down to see them contently gulping down milk then falling off your breast like a small drunk you know you are ok utterly content and blissfully happy.

um. Dunno if that is what you are looking for Divaskychick?

I have a pet theory which may be completely mental but I suspect that the intensity of the mother/child/bf relationship freaks them out (no escape) and choosing

Would agree that NCT does give you a rather rose tinted version - my classes tended to suggest that if you had a C-Section it was your own fault for not trying hard enough - which made me feel just great as I ended up with one due to DD being undiagnosed breech. And both me and DP would have prefered more info on life after birth. I was the first one of my friends to have children and didn't feel I could tell anyone how awful I really felt in the first few weeks. Friends who've since have children seem to appreciate the fact that I understand that and that they don't have to pretend it's all wonderful in those first few weeks.

Divaskychick- I am 4wks into being a first time parent and things that would have helped me I think:

Have no expectations of yourself or at least lower them to rock bottom! If you aren't dressed at noon for the sixth day running it doesn't matter. Housework certainly doesn't matter.

You do not have to pretend to anybody. Don't say 'it's fine' if it isn't.

If you can't face visitors please just say no to them or better still get a dh/dp to do it.

Ask for help as often as necessary.

You will feel guilty, maybe a little, maybe a lot. Whether it is leaving the baby to cry because you have to have two minutes alone, not loving the baby straight away or using formula for example, it is normal to be wracked with guilt.

Physically it is quite shocking. The exhaustion, the lochia, the anaemia etc all have such a debilitating effect.

The baby blues are more than feeling a bit blue in many cases. If on day 3 you hit a hormonal, weeping, confused wall you are entirely normal.

Sleep at every available opportunity. Honestly, you don't need to do the laundry right now, you need to sleep.

Breastfeeding is difficult, painful, tiring, confusing, worrying, constant and a skill you have to learn. Get the help with it early on.

I know that all sounds fairly negative. Needless to say I absolutely adore my dd, she is the greatest thing that has ever come into our lives and every moment is worth it. Even at 3am on day 3 when I sat in bed, nipples bleeding, lochia soaking through the mattress, baby screaming, me sobbing, the cat weeing on the carpet, utterly exhausted, cs scar throbbing, desperate for the loo and frightened out of my life, it's still worth it. And even 4wks in it gets easier every day.

Oh...I think that's bollocks in my case, PI But on a practical note, yes it meant I could go out and I did appreciate that, even if I would have preferred not to be able to.
But I do know someone who b/f for 5 weeks, it was going well, and she had to give up because she couldn't deal with the closeness.
She and her child have a perfectly normal relationship now, btw, very good in fact. But she did get freaked and it was too much.

Oh ProjectIcarus has described one of my favourite bits. When they fall off your breast, punch drunk with milk highs, milk running down their chin and sighing contentedly, oh God it's beautiful...

[hormonal]

I think we absolutely should tell them what it's about warts and all, so that if / when they are struggling with PND a few weeks post partum they won't feel even worse because everyone who has ever spoken to them has told them what incomparable joy having a baby is....

Ime high ranking NCT officers frequently spout crap

I have to admit that I did rather resent the NCT line that a few smelly candles, your favourite music and a positive attitude and you won;t even consider an epidural. yeah right.

hatwoman - agreed - there is a whole conspiracy of silence that you can just "breathe through the pain" etc. etc. and it will all be a doddle. When I had my oldest I was very young and very stupid and when the labour pains started, I quite seriously thought something was going badly wrong and I would die . We'd talked about "managing pain" etc at antenatal, but what I actually needed was someone to sit me down and just scare the hell out of me beforehand - and then I wouldn't have been so scared at the actual event. Ditto the post-birth period - like many others, I had no family support and no friends with babies, and had no idea how to cope. If and when DD has a baby, I plan to tell her how it really is in plenty of time!

We had someone come to talk about her PND with our NCT class. It was awful- she had been sectioned. A very extreme case. I wasn't fazed by it (felt sorry for the woman, she was too terrified to have another in case it happened again- it was obviously- 8 years later- still very raw for her) but some in my class were freaked. I don't think it was helpful to hear such an extreme view.

Anyway everyone's experiences are different. The first year after ds1's birth was the happiest of my life- the first 6 weeks were blissful. Telling me it was going to be awful wouldn't have helped!

I would have gone MAD if someone hadn't sat me down before I gave birth and said: it's really hard, relentless work and the first six weeks you will think you have bought home beelzebub him or herself. But you do get through it and pretty soon you feel more confident and start to enjoy the experience.

Also experiencing something is different from being told about it. If someone had taken me to ds1's school anytime in the first few years of his life and said "this is where yur son will spend 14 years of his school life I would have been sick on the spot. In fact the experience has been nothing but wonderful. How can you prepare someone for something that they have zero experience of, and wouldn't you then just be telling them about your experience? I read the things on here about the first 6 weeks being dreadful and it rings no bells with me at all- mine were blissful & serene (despite bfeeding problems). But me saying that to someone wouldn't be helpful if they had a hellish first 6 weeks

no you can't tell someone what parenthood will be like

you also can't tell someone what birth will be like

in both cases you can a. try and b. help them come up with a basic strategy

especially if they are ASKING for this information

Some women do sail through early parenthood. Many don't. People with "difficult" babies, who are far from family, the first of their friends to have kids etc etc-or are simply finding the change very hard...these are the women who could be helped by having some sort of strategy.

I really do object to the idea that we shouldn't really tell women about life post birth, which is actually what this woman was saying. Its bloody patronizing, especially when people ARE paying a fair bit for these classes.

I think the other thing is to know that your feelings, post birth, are NORMAL

everyone is tired

everyone, I hope, feels occasional twinges for their pre baby life

everyone finds the first 6 weeks bloody shocking

everyone looks like crap for a bit and feels like their life is spiralling out of control

IME, unless you are VERY lucky, most antenatal groups DON'T talk about this, there is such pressure to keep up a brave face. So those who have been through it and out the other side DO, IMO, have a duty to be honest.

no. i think you HAVE to tell them. if everyone around you is telling you how easy it all is, then when you are dropped into the knackering filthy eardrum bursting alcoholic creating tearduct bursting sitting in a corner in the foetal position at 3 am watching faeries dancing on your slippers having had exactly 17 and a half minutes sleep in the last 3 days reality of it, you are going to think its only you and you are just not up to the job when, in fact, babies should come with a government health warning and a quart of gin.

But this is my point. You said:

"everyone finds the first 6 weeks bloody shocking". I didn't I found them wonderful. Seriously the happiest most content time of my life, and I know I'll never feel that happy again.

I don't think you can tell someone what an emotional experience will be like because it will be different for everyone. Birth is different. Our NCT teacher was very good- she didn't tell us how we would feel; she told us what might happen, and gave a broad range of options- but she didn't tell us how we would feel.

But so much telling is based on individual experience and may not relate to them. And then they'll be on MN complaining about all the contradictory advice they received.

I do agree with you fillyjonk that the attitude you describe in your op is totally patronising and mistaken

Agree with NKF. If you had told me what my life was like after birth I would have looked forward to it. I remember a friend saying to me "oh thank god I've given birth and I'm not fucking pregnant anymore" and she sailed through the first 6 weeks. And she was one of the ones who waqs freaked by the doom and gloom PND experience we listened to. TBH stuggling/sailing was pretty much 1/2 and 1/2 in our NCT group. I think you can't say much more than "if you feel tired and worn out and that everything is difficult it is likely to pass". Many won't feel terrible so why tell them they will beforehand?

am confused

you are saying, don't give women an idea of what to expect because for SOME women it will be better than the average? Or because, like birth, experiences widely differ?

See I don't think those who have had unsually "good" experiences are the women I am too worried about. They are not statistically likely to develop pnd, for example, nor to become especially isolated. I don't think many people would mind discovering that having a baby is a lot easier than they thought.

But anyway, this is a matter of how to present the material.

The point is to give women the idea that certain experiences are pretty normal, and that a few should be causing alarm bells to ring. Thats what, IME, neither the NCT or the NHS is really doing atm. Its all focussed on the birth, which is a single, relatively brief, event. Nice to get it right but...a lot less important than the first few months with a new baby.

ok, my experience is NOT that 50% of women find birth plain sailing

Certainly a good percentage put up and shut up. That is NOT the same thing.

I think if you want to breastfeed, having some contact numbers (other than midwife and health visitor) is useful. Having someone you trust to call on is important. And help. I was told all about the tiredness but still found it unreal, beyond anything I could have imagined.

But if I'd had to sit and listen to how awful it would be..... well what would that have done to fear of birth? Add in fear of this terrible first 6 weeks?

If you want to tell people that it might be terrible you allso have to tell them that it might be wonderful. Parenting and holding a baby is far more emotional than birth (because it takes place over a longer period) & needs a much more individual approach. OK tell people if it's bad this is where you can get support, but don't do what we had and wheel in terrible cases of PND because it really was not remotely helpful.