I agree with every word of this article about the ideal of parenting

[margoandjerry]

In the times today

except that I wouldn't bother to explain why I was screaming.

Amusing though, that because we share an opinion that differs from your Enid, you take us to be one and the same (as we must be in such a small minority to disagree with you!!)

OOOooohhhh

I was going to link to this article. Rather glad I didn't now.

95% of the time I am a calm mummy (albeit often rather absent minded, wild eyed one) 5% of time I screech. Or so I thought. BUT now I check my figures it turns out that if I screeched for 5% of the time I would be screeching for 8.4 hours per week.

Which seems a little excessive - in reality I'm closer to a couple of hours per week.

So, statistically, I am, in fact, a better mother than Enid

Hmm... a massive 43 seconds between posts, enough time to log out, log in as a different user and type a message!!

Okay, I'll stop now!

And I liked you Cascara, you traitor! ;-)

Seriously, though - In RL, I like humourous, self deprecating people who are able to admit to their frailties. I don't get on with or make friends of those 'I'm so perfect types' (no fun). Why should it be any different on MN? We don'tall have to get along do we? You can tell me to piss off, I can smash up a few toys...heck, we can all just live and let live :-)

Well said LoveAngel!

Damn, am I LoveAngel?!

I don't really get this thing that if you admit that you sometimes make mistakes, you're "revelling" in or aspiring to be a Bad Mother.

I don't like this silly fashion either, but admitting you screw up sometimes and that's normal is not the same at all.

Malmaman I agree with you and your ilk.

The whole point of the article, and I can't believe it has caused a row, is that the whole "no smacking, talk calmly, use time out" philosophy, sensible as it may be, leads parents to believe that this philosophy must be present at all times because we are told that smacking and shouting damage children so any break from this philosophy, even mild or temporary will damage a child.

I fundamentally disagree - seeing my mother as a normal human being who had meltdowns now and again (or more!) and who was sometimes frankly out of line - did not damage me. It was healthy. She loved me, gave me stability, taught me how to function and crucially, taught me not to be afraid of emotion. Children need to function in the real world too.

Now atm my daughter is a freakishly good 8mo - she rarely cries and is lovely and smiley and sort of always has been. So I don't have to worry about this right now and this is all a bit academic to me. But I know when I do have to face it, I won't be superhuman.

I will try to employ sensible strategies as much as I can. But when I am exhausted and fed up and miserable and she is being a nightmare and has been for the last x days, I won't worry too much about the impact on her if I have a meltdown and shout and cry or even bash one of her toys about.

She can laugh at me after because I am not a god - I am a human mother and she will know that I will always love her even if I have the screaming habdabs some days (and secretly I might even think I hate her some days - I have heard several people say that they think this sometimes). She may not love me - I hope she does but that is her choice - but I will always love her.

Well said round of applause for margoandjerry

...or am I applauding myself? Confused!

oh lovely. I think it's a smug "well done us" all round and a wander off to browse through the Boden catalogue whilst drinking a fair trade coffee

lol@margoandjerry

Off you go, then. I think I'll just stay here on my sofa with a big cup of PG Tips.

Now girls, shall we all have a game of "I spy?"

I think as well if we were able to admit a bit more that it is at times boring, frustrating, relentless, tedious, scream inducing, it would be more healthy. Then there would be more chat about it, it would be more accepted and there wouldn't be the perception that we had to be 'perfect'. And then pple might not chuck their kids out on the road because she felt like she could talk to the woman at toddlers about it instead of pretending they all slept thru from the age of 1day, eats everything and is wonderful.

Self control? What like stiff upper lip and all that? In moderation yes, but not to the extend of hiding genuine frustration and annoyance.......

i totally lost it in the co-op carpark once when ds was about 5 , i snatched his toy gun off him ,leapt out of the car and repeatedly jumped up and down on it until it was smashed to smithereens ,cue totally shocked child who then said ' nana bought that for me ,you are going to be in so much trouble'.

The the story that provoked the feature (mother leaving kids by teh side of the road), from Richard Branson's autobiography:

MY CHILDHOOD IS SOMETHING of a blur to me now, but there are several episodes that stand out. I do remember that my parents continually set us challenges. My mother was determined to make us independent. When I was four years old, she stopped the car a few miles from our house and made me find my own way home across the fields. I got hopelessly lost. My youngest sister Vanessa's earliest memory is being woken up in the dark one January morning because Mum had decided I should cycle to Bournemouth that day. Mum packed some sandwiches and an apple and told me to find some water along the way.

Bournemouth was fifty miles away from our home in Shamley Green, Surrey. I was under twelve, but Mum thought that it would teach me the importance of stamina and a sense of direction. I remember setting off in the dark, and I have a vague recollection of staying the night with a relative. I have no idea how I found their house, or how I got back to Shamley Green the next day, but I do remember finally walking into the kitchen like a conquering hero, feeling tremendously proud of my marathon bike ride and expecting a huge welcome.

'Well done, Ricky,' Mum greeted me in the kitchen, where she was chopping onions. 'Was that fun? Now, could you run along to the vicar's? He's got some logs he wants chopping and I told him that you'd be back any minute.'

Speaking from the standpoint of someone who often loses it, I think it's an awful and frightening experience for a young child, and a bad example to an older one. I believe an adult temper tantrum should be followed by apology and clear explanation and interpretation of events leading up to it- to promote future avoidance. Not that it should be presented to the child as being normal and acceptable- they have to learn to control themselves too. Nowt wrong with self-discipline and I wish I had more of it.

I am very envious of you, Piffle, you seem to have a wise and helpful child!

"smugness... is in the eye of the beholder..."

lolololol!

how very true!

SauerKraut, I think ratclare's story is instructive. She lost it, had a massive breakdown, child shocked but not terrified - it sounds as though her son knew that there was stability and sanity in the world (with his Nana at that moment!).

My view, maybe hopelessly naive, is that if you can give them an idea of stability somehow, even a child can view these breakdowns as temporary interference, not an illustration of the world as fundamentally unstable and frightening.

Ratclare, I'm sorry if I have turned your story into something it wasn't meant to be.

Blimey Richard Branson's mother was a nutter

Oops, that was a judgemental comment wasn't it?

Actually I don't think it necessarily is an awful and frightening experience for a young child.

If I ever have a tantrum (doesn't happen often), the kids start laughing at me.

Dammit

Didn't see ratclare's post, and wasn't judging, especially as , as I said, I've lost it many a time myself. I most certainly hope kids can deal with it, otherwise mine will be scarred for life...
I completely understand how easily it can happen, and actually, ratclare's post is encouraging.

Oh I am sure I come across as smug on here [breezy]

in RL not though

And, bossykate, I wish I could afford to feel smug on this one!

Think the key is in the word 'often' sauerkraut - as I was speaking as someone who rarely loses it. Think if you flare up often as you state then yes it probably is very frightening as the child may be effectively stepping on eggshells all the time to avoid triggering an angry incident.

Actually I think most children with abusive childhoods vow not to repeat mistakes of parents. I probably have it totally wrong and m'y time will come' as someone said , but for the time being I have vowed to try never to scare my children, in however small a way.