I agree with every word of this article about the ideal of parenting

[margoandjerry]

In the times today

except that I wouldn't bother to explain why I was screaming.

Gosh BarbieLovesKen, you must have trouble reading newspapers, watching telly etc if that story prompts tears. How do you cope with the cruelty children sometimes inflict upon each other?

I completely agree with Enid in theory.

In practise I would need a personality transplant.

agree with margoandjerry.

oh well we are going to have to agree to disagree

If it is so awful travelling with children to dancing which is a treat why do it? Is it for the child or to be centre of attention. It is obviously causing stress. Some things are not worth the hassle. It obviously isn't an enjoyment.

And for all those mums who lose their temper from time to time, I think we can agree that this is COMPLETELY normal. Not to be admired but part of being human. This competitive mother thing has no winners.

of all the chats i have seen and been involved in today this one is the one that everyone seems to be the most sensitive about. My observation is the majority do have the occasional loss of temper and we dont always feel great about it, i mean we are not proud that we lost our rag but we did and no one was harmed, we all love our kids no less than those who dodnt shout, so its one of those subjects that really has no conclusion except that as mums we are all champions and we all love our kids and want the best for them but we all differ greatly but we must all still support and appreciate each other even when we disagree

You are absolutely spot on margoandjerry.

oh crap the thread has gone out of hand

shouting doesn't diffuse a situation. Its just one of a range of human behaviours. Its normal.

fwiw i don't see how enid is being smug, not at all. She doesn't feel the need to shout at her kids. Nor do I, really, if I am honest, and I don't much. But I don't think its a problem if others do

I also think that there are different styles of parenting. So shoutiness might come with other positives which balances it out. I could probably think of some if i wasn't so bloody tired.

Some of us see Enid's comments as smug and unnecessary on this thread. A few don't. If this many people found me smug on a thread I would certainly have a read through and have a think.
But for me it is a FAR greater offense to think you are a better mum than others than to lose your temper now and again. Personally I found those willing to admit their little tantrums quite refreshing.

I had to come back to this - ds has been allowed to stay up until 9 as a very special treat tonight, on the basis that he promised me he would then go up, brush his teeth, get his pyjamas on and go to bed. I asked him to promise that he would do this, which he did. Cue 9.00 and up he goes, dragging his heels. 5 minutes later, up I go to tuck him in and he's still fully dressed and playing with some cars. When I point out this wasn't keeping his word, he's arguing back!

I defy anyone to keep their calm head on in that kind of situation. wtf should I have done? wtf should I do? I am seriously at the end of my tether

ok I accept its highly annoying, but heres what i would do

either

1. say ok, fine, you stay in your room now, its 9.00. goodnight.

or

2. say , tommorrow we are doing x, but we won't if you don't get to bed NOW because you and i will be too tired.

how old is he?

He's 9. Would number 1 come with any consequences?

um, probably not, no. might roll it into no 2 though.

i have to say though that would be my strategy with a 3 yo, so dunno how helpful it'd be.

10pm and he's still going strong. Give me strength. Am trying v hard to remain calm but good grief, even enid would be struggling.

Do you let him go to bed with books etc? I do this, the boys have to be in their room/beds at whatever time I deem appropriate, but they can sit with books etc until they're tired. I'm not condemming shouting btw, just thinking about this situation, I can be shouty.

I wouldnt care as long as he was in his bedroom not being noisy. I'd shut his door and leave him. He'll be knackered tomorrow, his fault.

I think I have got the gist of this thread without having read every single post

personally I am not always a calm unshouty mother but I would like to be

I don't beat myself up constantly about sometimes losing my temper but I don't just shrug and say "oh fine it is normal" either. I am trying hard to learn different ways so I might not get so cross in the future, maybe

I find being around other people (both in RL and on here) who ARE naturally calm and not shouty is extremely helpful to me in that they provide a good model of how this might be achieved without being a Stepford wife. Being around other parents who are cross and shouty is not helpful. It normalises crappy parenting and winds everybody up.

I believe that the occasional raising of voice by end of her tether mother does not a shouty parent make.

There is a difference between people who shout on a regular basis and those who do so on the odd occasion. I have rarely raised my voice at my children and when I have I can't honestly say that I feel guilty. I apologise to the child, explain why I got upset we have a cuddle and then all move on. I don't feel quilty for being a normal balanced loving person who has normal human failings.

Calm reasonableness a la enid is how I manage to be most of the time

On the odd occasion I lose the plot and screeaaaaaaam at the top of my voice

ah i have worked something out, pos why i am disagreeing with a lot of people here, or pos NOT but

in our family, shouting is kind of a symptom of being upset. it is almost like bursting into tears, really.

so if anyone, child or adult, started shouting, the impetus would be to try to find out why they were upset. I suppose we also wouldn't take them very seriously.

I also tend to think that its what SAID that matters. So there are things that could be said that I really wouldn't tolerate, but it wouldn't make a difference if they were shouted or not.

We are quite a noisy family, i think .