I agree with every word of this article about the ideal of parenting

[margoandjerry]

In the times today

except that I wouldn't bother to explain why I was screaming.

truce?

of course

I might not teach my DS to speak.

oh its not that bad

Good!

I liked the article posted by the OP.
As the child of an extremely volatile mother, I know how it feels to be screamed at, and I also know how indifferent to her rage I became. My Dad, however, was entirely the opposite. He is my hero and the wisest person I know BUT when he shouted, I cowered and knew I had really overstepped the mark. He knows just how to control bad behaviour with words said at normal decibels, too. I try not to shout too much, but sometimes I do just melt down, especially with DD1 who is almost 13 and wears me out with her incessant answering back. I really feel like walloping her some days, little smart arse that she is, but I try to breathe and speak quietly (albeit with menacing tone!). I don't want to be shouty because then I feel as though I have lost control, and that seems to be the objective of the DD's game. On the other hand, I hate the brattish behaviour of children whose parents 'don't do' discipline of any kind. It depends on the child - some children would just laugh at you if you tried to rationalise, whilst with others it would work a treat. I just wish we could all stop analysing each other's parenting skills because they are entirely subjective.

Exactly GHW. That last sentence should be written at the top of almost every thread on MN imho.

The problem is that so many people are worried they're Doing It Wrong, are therefore more sensitive to criticism, and see any pareting decision that differs from theirs as an implied criticism.

Which is exactly why we should all be supporting each other and celebrating our diverse parenting styles.

thats why sites like these are so important, because you can go through the motions, and the more people who contribute the more opinions you get, which means you realise you are not alone, because there is always someone who feels the way you do. Although the challenge is always good too, its good to also be open minded to new ideas and suggestions like you say all parenting is subjective

Sorry my post upset you Enid, but sometimes things we say do upset other people, as I was trying to point out. Some people do lose it. You don't (often). But saying 'control yourself' and rise above it' does make you sound just a little bit superior. That's all I was trying to say.

.... and a plea for empathy doesn't make someone 'bitter'.

my posts weren't personal wordsmith, as you well know

Mmm interesting thread. Made me think of an occasion when I was younger and I was so frustrated by my older sister's constant calm reasonableness that I was meaner and meaner to her until she finally REACTED. Unfortunately she reacted by crying when what I wanted was for her to get angry with me (made me feel dead guilty). Not my mum, I know, but her lack of strong reaction sometimes made me feel like she didn't care IYSWIM.

Now she is a mother I can sometimes see her DS do the same thing that I did as a child, he goads her into a reaction (that isn't just calm explaining).

Does that make sense to anyone other than me?

calm reasonableness is something to aspire to, not to belittle.

you are right Enid and I thought of you this morning when getting very stresses playing monopoly with dd and you motivated me to stay calm!

I do not belittle calm reasonableness, I think I'm pretty calm and reasonable myself.

Enid - I don't understand why you would bother to come on a thread like this though. Some mums were admitting that they lose it sometimes with their kids, regret it but that we're all only human and it happens. You come on and say well don't lose your temper. It's just pointless.
It's like if I was to go on a 'I can't breastfeed and am depressed about it' thread and said 'I've breastfed 3 children without a cracked nipple and it was easy'. The statement might well be true but it's going to make others feel bad so is pointless at best, sanctimoniuos at worst.
And stops people seeking help as one poster here has said.

Personally I think that calm children create calmer parents than the other way round. DS1 was an incredibly easy baby & toddler (to the point of abnormally calm- I now know it was because of his autism) and I think of that time as an oasis of calmness. DS2 came along he's a pretty calm child - but ds1 became harder. Now with ds1 and his challenging behaviours and the general stroppinesss (from the day of birth) that is ds3 I find it far harder to achiever calmness. I get told that I'm relaxed for our situation by the pros, but I feel cross and shouty and very stressed a lot of the time. If ds3 had been more like ds2 I strongly suspect I wouldn't be quite so stressed/shouty now. The nice thing about ds3 is that I know he'll get easier as he gets older. Although ds1 will get harder so I may never achieve my calm oasis ever again!

thats so nice twinset

I maybe wrong but I don't think that Enid was attacking people who are depressed and so struggle with their kids, this was not a thread started by a mum saying I am suffering from depression and can't cope to which enid replied I never loose my temper I am miss ultra cool.

not a problem!

I am very close to tears thinking of that little child watching their parent rip his/her toy apart.

God, im really upset. Id be terrified.

The child is fine, I'm sure, BarbieandKen, so save your sympathy for someone who needs it.

I think the whole point is that both the children in the two "toy destruction" scenes posted on here were actually fine about it! Prob pissed off with the loss of the toy but basically ok because basically loved and basically doing fine, basically.

Enid, this is not about whether you do or don't lose control. You've made it clear that you don't. This is about whether now and again losing control and shouting as a parent is a major problem for children and their development and most people seem to be saying, you know what, if your household is generally loving and stable and your kids are generally looked after and loved and know that they are loved, it's really not a problem.

I do enjoy MN but the professionalisation of parenting is a bit wearing - "you do it like this or you are doing it wrong". That's why it becomes so categorical - because it gets treated like a profession with professional rules.

In my life I know what the ideal lifestyle is - min 5 fruit and veg a day, min 45 mins exercise a day, 2litres water a day, regular health checks. I aspire to this but don't manage it. I also don't think that AUTOMATICALLY means I am going to get cancer.

Same with parenting - I do what I can and and sometimes I'm frankly crap and that doesn't mean that my kids will AUTOMATICALLY be damaged. They won't.

BTW, don't want to rake anything up but calling people bitter on here is not as controlled as it might be.

Thanks for your suggestion, LoveAngel, but as an adult I think I am perfectly entitled to feel sympathy for anyone I want and to be quite honest, visualising that happening has really upset me.

Once again I find myself raising a glass (of water! Good mums to don't drink in the afternoon!) to margoandjerry. Here here.