Kids caught "playing doctor" other mum furious

[Isthisnormalfor6yearolds]

So I'm horribly confused & frightened now and not sure what to do. My DC's (DS 6, DD 4) spent the day at my DF's house with her two DD's (also 6 & 4). They've all been friends since they were babies, so we're very excited. When I picked them up, all seemed normal. Well a few hours later, my DF calls and tells me that she caught her eldest DD & my DS in the bathroom touching each other. She said she heard my DS ask her DD to lie down and open her legs, and he touched her vagina. He also had his pants off. Apprantely they were laughing and giggling. (When I asked DS & DD later, DS said friends DD asked him to take his pants down first, DD confirms this, and that the two 4 year olds we're opening the door and thought it was all very funny).

DF finished telling me what happened and said she now has to think of her daughter and that my son is no longer allowed near her, and that we can no longer be friends.

I'm in shock. Part of me thinks, that while inappropriate, this whole thing is nothing more than normal childhood doctor. But her reaction has me looking up psychologists for my DS, who has never done anything like this before, as far as I know!

I've been googling signs of sexual abuse but he doesn't fit any of those.

I'm scared and upset 😟 and I don't know who is overreacting.

Haven’t RTFT, but agree that this sounds like normal childhood curiosity to me, and would not phase me if my children were involved. I would simply have a chat with the children about how being curious is nothing to be ashamed of, but that there are some important rules to follow when it comes to private parts, and then explain the PANTS rule.

Is there any way you can step outside this claustraphobic expat community and make friends with local people instead? I know it is nice to have friends that you share a culture with but it is also good to have a wider choice of friends.

OP I have just read through the updates, I don’t know your son but I believe what he is saying is the truth!

I am mum to three boys and little girls can be very inquisitive, I remember there was a situation a few years back where a girl had followed one of my sons into the toilet, luckily he was familiar with the underwear rule so nothing become of it.

6yo boy saying bum bum and making fart noises - that definitely sounds believable 😂😂

And asking to see something when someone's seems yours is perfectly age appropriate. They compare everything at this age from the length and pattern on their pencil, lunchboxes, toys etc to their bodies - because they don't yet have the understanding of the difference. I work with children and it's sooooo common if someone wants to see something someone has they'll ask to see there's in return.

By understanding of difference I mean - a pencil is a pencil and a penis is a penis. They don't generally see much difference in regards the actual object - it's just a 'thing'

Sorry you are going through this OP

I'd be worried about that little girl.
Is there any chance she is being abused?

OP I have just read through the updates, I don’t know your son but I believe what he is saying is the truth!

I believe him to. Which means my ex-friend is lying about the whole situation. Which is extremely worrying in and of itself.

Thinking back on the phone call with her she said he asked her daughter to "lie down and spread your legs so I can see your vagina." My DS has never used the word vagina in his life. I don't think he even knows what a vagina is. We use the local word for vagina.

So basically everything she said, beyond they were looking at each others bits, is complete bullshit. So now, the question is why is she making this shit up? Has she lost her mind?

Going to see the lawyer this afternoon. At this point I don't want to press charges, but it will be good to get our ducks in a row. Especially if she's delusional.

I believe your son, OP. Your friend has been a bit hysterical and is embellishing heavily from the sounds of it. It is normal for kids to do these sort of things from time to time growing up.

Trouble is, we exist in little bubbles of perfectionist idealism these days. We may not have first hand experience of similar scenarios, and when they do happen, have a tendency to over react and look for worst-case perspectives. We're all on the look out for red flags.

I hope you get it sorted soon and can out it behind you. Sadly, I know from personal experience that children and their families can be ostracised for much less. If you have a way in to talk to your friend I would try, but it would be a very difficult thing to do. But is that worse from going NC?

If you have a way in to talk to your friend I would try, but it would be a very difficult thing to do. But is that worse from going NC?

Honestly, my opinion now is that she's mentally unwell and it would be best to just walk away and hope this is the worst thing that happens.

I would hope, if the wording makes sense, that your friend has panicked and overreacted in the way she has handled things. It isn't an excuse in any way, and the friendship is irretrievable now regardless of what happens going forward from here.

It doesn't sound like anything other than normal childhood curiosity and messing round. I think the other mother downplayed and hasn't dealt with the other incident and is now overcompensating by reacting to these events as she has.

Maybe speak to your son's school and pre-empt any contact towards them from the other mother?

Please let us know how you get on with the legal advice.

You're being really strong for your son.

You need to speak to your child’s school ASAP before she pre empts it.

As I said, I have to wait to see what the lawyer advises. Slander laws being what they are here, going to my sons school and saying a delusional woman might call making outrageous claims about might son may end up getting me in trouble!

Your friend is being ignorant and overreacting. DD did something similar with another little girl at the other girl's suggestion. Me and the other mum used it as an opportunity to chat with the girls about touching and privacy. They have never done it again and we are all still friends.

Lay down and spread your legs so I can see your vagina

That does sound totally embellished. It's not really the type of language a 6yo would use and tbh if any man used that with me I'd be put off. It sounds like a line from a dodgy prom movie!

"I'll show you mine if you show me yours" is totally what I'd believe happened with kids this age.

I'm also questioning timeline. I'm assuming she didn't call you to pick your kids up straightaway? Why not? If she really believed your son was some 6yo sexual abuser she'd have done more than she did.
I think her DD did instigate it. She knows her dd instigated it because she heard what was said. So rather than deal with it she's transferring blame and making the story bigger so no ones questions her.

I had an ex friend who would make up situations which clearly didn't happen. She'd make up situations in which I was apparently involved and said and did things. Of course as a grown woman I knew they weren't true and what I have and haven't done and where I have and haven't been. But her storytelling meant all I could say was "I've never even been to X place" etc which sound truely pathetic against a whole story of something happening there.

youarenotkiddingme

The look of confusion on my sons face when I asked him why he asked her to lie down was so genuine. He scrunched up his face and said "Lie down? Where?" I said, on the floor and he said "Why?" It was heartbreaking and such a relief at the same time.

She said (4 hours later when she called me) that it happened when I was in the car on the way to pick them up. But when I got to the house everything seemed fine. You'd think if it was that shocking she'd have told me straight away, not given me a gift and chatted about the party on Saturday.

Honestly, right now I'm convinced she's a pathological liar and an attention seeker. She claimed another former friend of ours abused her kids about 4 years ago and we all believed her (because why not), now I wonder...

I'm also incredibly angry at my other "friends" who sided with her. I want to shake them. They've known my son since he was a year old and always said what a nice, kind, gentle boy he was, but suddenly they are willing to believe that he's some kind of molester?

Morning OP, I really feel for you 💐 you’re son is inoccent in all this. I believe that someone else has said to the little girl “lay down and....” like others here have said it’s very unusual for a 6 year old boy to use the word vagina

I suspect she has been abused by someone else, and your ex friend needs to find out who rather than accusing your 6 year old.

I’m sorry your ‘friend’ has done this.

Don’t question DS anymore, you’re risking making a bigger deal out of anything that did happen than it warrants and confusing him IF an agency needs to talk to him.

I remember a lot of different daft games that involved looking at and touching each other’s bits, it’s childhood curiosity and perfectly normal. One game, at school, involved friends putting freshly mown grass inside each other’s pants - one teacher got us all together and told us off...for messing with the freshly cut grass heaps (that we KNEW we shouldn’t be playing with) then said something about it not being good for our bits either. No drama over it. As it should be.

Parents who think their little darlings don’t do this kind of thing are deluded.

Don’t question DS anymore

We're not going to. DH and I are quite confident that the person lying in this situation isn't DS. Why the sick bitch feels the need to lie about something like this I don't know.

Gosh. If your friend is this ott about routine childhood shenanigans then you're better off not having her as a friend.

She is trying to create a reality in which her DD is not in the wrong and therefore is not potentially exposing herself to risks.

You are right to look at additional measures to protect your DS and your family. However, I suggest you tread very carefully in terms of doing anything that might be perceived as being aggressive by this mother (no matter if it isn't). Anyone who works in any kind of contentious law has nightmare stories about what happens when unhinged and vindictive people get involved in legal disputes. Think defensively, and try to make decisions based on taking the heat out of the situation rather than being driven by emotion. I hope things go well.

So this is the third time this woman has accused someone of sexually abusing her daughter?

So this is the third time this woman has accused someone of sexually abusing her daughter?

No, with the other former friend she claimed that the friend was abusing her own daughters. She told us all sorts of stories of stuff she'd "witnessed" and been told. We all assumed at the time she was telling the truth. I feel horrid now, as it was probably lies.

Whilst it could show there are other problems, it is also normal behaviour for a six year old.

It really sounds as if she is a pathological liar!

Do you think she may tell the school what has happened? If so I would notify them first.

Do you think she may tell the school what has happened?

I don't think so, because I don't think her lies will stand up to scrutiny and she knows that. Over all I think she was more concerned about getting her version of events to our friend group first, which she did, and she's managed to gaslight them.