Dilemma with husband smacking teen

[DutchSmartie]

Hi, i'm new here and don't know who to turn to for advice.

My husband is ordinarily a very lovely man. Our friends think he's fantastic. However when he gets angry (and his moods can be brittle), he often says and does things that are very inappropriate. He has astonishingly poor emotional control at times.

So on the odd occasion when he is angry at our daughter, who is 15 now, he has lashed out at her. She is quite mouthy and doesnt back down easily, but whenever this has happened, I've addressed it - its not okay, he should never lash out at her or anyone etc but he is usually furious back - i never support him in arguments, he barely touched her, she's over-reacting to get attention etc. I've witnessed him slap her, push her hard against the wall, and kick her hard enough off the bed for her to fall heavily on the floor. He never ever apologises to her, or admits his behaviour was inappropriate. I've talked to her about it, and that while he should apologise, he almost certainly is ashamed of his behaviour, and that he is a product of his own upbringing, and the est she can hope for is to learn from it for when she becomes a parent. But it feels woefully inadequate. If i broach it with him, he gets angry, accuses me (an her) of being a liar, and of fabricating these events.

Lately, whenever he taps her or brushes her aside when he's annoyed, she becomes mouthy, shouts to take his hands off her and to stop hitting her. Invariably he becomes furious at her accusations, and punishes her in some way like cutting off her internet, taking her phone, banning her from a party. If i haven't witnessed these events, only the shouty aftermath, I can't really comment on whether his behaviour on those occasions was or was not appropriate.

The problem is that he then turns his anger on me for not backing him up. Apparently i should be equally cross at our daughter for making these 'false accusations'. The fact that i didn't see the event doesn't come into it. If i make the mistake of saying that, hence implying that in fact he could have hit, smacked or otherwise hurt her, or remind him that he has in fact done so in the past, he threatens to leave me for emotional abuse, sleeps elsewhere, sulks etc.

Meanwhile my daughter is furious at being punished for something she hasn't done - ie her dad got mad and lashed out at her and is now punishing her (as well as the silent fury and sulking). She's furious at me for not taking her side, for not making him apologise for lashing out at her, for not undoing the punishment.

I have no idea how to deal with this. I don't want to undermine him and his relationship with her further. I hate it that he lashes out when cross, verbally and physically. I hate it that he has no respect for her physical boundaries, and even pushing her or her hand away is not okay if she says its not okay. i hate that i'm being made to not support her in feeling that she can set these boundaries, or that if they are crossed she must stay silent and take the punishment so as not to set him off further. I cant talk to him about it without him becoming angry and accusing me of lying, and I have no idea what to say to her about it.

Please help :(

My DH and I agree with smacking children (as in just with the hand, and on the back of the leg or backside, and only ever one smack at a time).

We would only ever do this if our children were doing something incredibly dangerous, or repeatedly failed to respond to our other commands.

What you have described that your Husband does though is abuse. I would not be able to tolerate having my DD slapped around the face, pushed up against a wall, and certainly not kicked anywhere - especially kicked out of bed onto the floor. If my DH had done any of these things, I would be livid. If he kicked my child out of bed onto the floor, I would be kicking him out of our house.

What the actual fuck?

He is abusing her, physically. For fucks sakes

I had a Mum like this, it was awful but we have worked through the past and she has admitted now that she had huge problems.
My Dad stood and watched and not once intervened- I will never truly forgive him for that. You are putting your relationship with your daughter at risk by not doing something!

I mean the action he is taking now is subtle the previous pushing her hard against the wall off the bed etc is abuse. Low level is still abuse because it is on going. Teenagers can be hard work but you cannot have him doing this. She will end up in relationships like that too. Read about it yourself you will realise the emotional damage it is doing to her.

Bowerbird

As a child of parents, who were physically abusive, your post makes me feel ill. It is not very clear with what happened between your dh and ds. Perhaps perhaps you can excuse the one off it indeed is one off. And I already struggle massively with this.

I feel physically sick with you telling op to stay until a next time. I am living the experience in my head of how this young woman is feeling. And it’s horrendous.

It is incredibly frightening and demeaning to be hit as a young child. For it to continue into mid/late teens it is horrendous and soul destroying. It prevents a child from detaching from their parents and becoming an independent adult. The emotional abuse is not likely to stop even if the physical abuse does. He is emotionally abusing his wife after all.

It's really inappropriate advice from someone who also does not have good boundaries around physical violence towards their own child.

What a sad post. Your teenage daughter will never forget her ‘dad’ kicking her off the bed. It will probably damage her feelings towards him for life. But OP your update are frustrating, you even admit it may happen again. You’re refusing to accept responsibility and protect your girl. Nearly everyone on here is telling you what you need to do and you’re ignoring it

Start by standing up to him, abusers go for weak victims, show you're not one of them.

I'm sorry but this is 1) a vile thing to say and 2) complete nonsense.

Bower, did you miss the part where this wasn't an isolated incident?

Btw, one of mine refused to go to school at around 15. You know what I didn't do? I didn't batter her. I worked with her because I realised as her parent something was wrong.

Violence is NEVER a solution.

I don't accept violence against myself. One strike and I couldn't give a fuck how sorry you are, but you can fuck off out of my home. My children and anyone else's children should have this same basic principle.

I am not going to lie, I have been tempted because boy do they push you, but as the adult I have walked away

Why bother with comments as it's obviously not going to help as op will not change So we all "walk" past and ignore a child being abused? You, and your attitude are part of the problem that lets violence against women and children breed. You may not care, but we do.

Op may not reply, but hopefully she will dip in and see some of the comments and it may move her enough to act.

I expect it could be a huge shock for her to read some of these home truths here.

Mummy of little dragon.
They were arguing when I came back from taking the others to school. I didn't go up straight away because it was just shouting I thought. I'd only been gone five minutes. DH had gone up and pulled the bedding off and told him to get up and he hadn't and been cheeky, refusing to go. We had all ready been talking to the school about it. We had talked to him at length to find out why and all he would say was he didn't like going. I heard DH whack him ( to me that is another word for smack) and I walked in he did it again. It was harder than a tap on the leg. I shouted at DH and told him to get out. That was it as far as I knew. I got smacked as a child occasionally and once when I was 17 my dad smacked me because he lost his temper because I answered back. I told my dad he was never to do it again and he didn't. I had a good relationship with him till he died.
I never once told OP to stay but I don't think she sounds like she is going to so I thought that I would try and help her to spell out to him that he cannot do this. It isn't acceptable nowadays. When he was a child it maybe was as it was accepted a lot more when I was a child. Even the GP admitted he had taken a slipper to one of his kids. If she spells it out to him at least there is a chance he won't do it again. DH never lifted a finger again,he left if he got annoyed.
She doesn't say he hit her as a young girl just sounds recently when teenagers push buttons. My son when we talked as adults said." I was a little arse mum." I was surprised at that. He and his dad have a good relationship now and go to the football together sometimes. I am no way condoning it I feel you are reading things into posts that are not necessarily meant perhaps.
There'snonameleft. I never once said he " battered " him. He whacked him. A whack is a smack in my book. It was more than a tap but not marking him or " battering." We had worked with him for ages and the school. They were going to take it further but offered us no solution. I think he just lost his rag you admit you have been tempted. I think woman, in general, have more control. I am not saying always before I someone else jumps on that comment. I no way condone it.
I had no money much and no family to go and stay with. We worked together as a family and it never happened again.DH was really sorry and I did give him another chance which I realise you wouldn't.

OP situation is different we don't know lots of things about her and we should not read into posts things we assume as they might not be fact.
Lots of people have said leave. I'm just not sure that she will so if they all remain there I was trying to help her protect her daughter. By talking to NSPCC she can do that and spell it out to him. They work with families and so do SS. It is unacceptable how he is treating her and it needs to stop. I said she needs to protect her daughter. I made that clear I thought.
I wish I hadn't posted now. She doesn't have to take my advise. Isn't this forum about posting ideas and the OP reads them and makes her own mind up. The main thing is she protects her daughter in some way.

You just need to stop posting Bower. Your posts are, at best, ill-advised and not helping anyone. You are simply demonstrating how minimising works.

Bower
Thank you for coming back to me. On rereading your post, it is true you didn’t tell her to stay with him, it was more of an if he doesn’t leave. I was bewildered at the first part of your post, which is what I responded to. It is true you did tell her to get outside help and let him leave if that’s what he decided. Letting him make the decision leaves the power in the hands of the abuser. This I consider very wrong.

It is an open forum to share ideas. I don’t agree with some of your ideas and explained why. I’m not trying to shut you down. I’m countering arguments I don’t agree with. Imo op is probably also a victim of this man’s emotional abuse and people advising her to continue to give him power is dangerous.

You and your husband have made your choices and admitted your mistakes. I hope your ds has been truly able to move on from this. Having never received an apology and having suffered emotional and physical abuse from family in adulthood, I struggle.

To be fair bower yours sounds like a one off incident. While this isn't really any better, as you also said I realised afterwards that he had really hit him and and that his father had hit him quite hard more than once, in my opinion it is far easier to move on from one isolated incident than a repetitive pattern, which is what the op's daughter is faced with.

I don't believe that there have "only" been three incidents. The dd is showing signs of anxiety and distress around her father and that would suggest that she has been coping with this for far longer than the op would either like to admit, or realises.

Yes I wish I had never posted I realise my mistake I have asked for it to be removed. The decisions I would make today would be different.if it had happened again it would have been different. It was 20 odd years ago. Things were different.
You could well be right that there have been more incidents but people don't always leave no matter how many times they are advised to. I have a friend who is a SW.
Bastardkitty.I wasn't meaning to minimise she should leave if she can I agree. I will stop posting. I have asked for my rubbish to be removed.

I don't think you should delete your posts @Bowerbird5 . Sorry for being so harsh. Times really have changed and OP's situation is really worrying.

I've been close to a story very much like this, only involving two daughters. The first left for university and never contacted either parent again, and still won't. She says of her mother exactly what the posters above have said and will not allow her to be involved with her own children. The other daughter told her teachers and, again, as the posters above have said, it was a lengthy and painful process for all. The family in question is broken beyond repair. Both daughters have a load of issues around men, parenting and self worth. Please do something.

Its emotional and physical abuse, punishing her for something she hasnt do e, or made something up, and hitting her and kicking her, enough to fall off a bed like you said. Id be disgusted, he should not hit her like that, or in anyway. He is setting the father daughter relationship uo to fail and break down, and yes ypu should say somethin. Him accusing you of making stuff up that you have witnessed is absurd, you have to address this issue before it morphs into a worse situation.

Cracker09
I could say the same thing about my life and the choices I made. I was desparately unhappy, made to feel unworthy and sacrificed myself. The result was the poor choices I made were then used against me as proof that I was definitely unworthy.

@Mummyoflittledragon and @Cracker09 Just such difficult and heartbreaking stuff to go through. A subject close to my heart. Reading your posts what stands out is how much strength and compassion you've both got. Thank you for sharing.

@StargazyDrifter

Thank you for noticing. I think we are all here on this forum because we want to be heard. 😘

Do you love your daughter or your husband more? Both of them can't be happy so you have to pick. Your daughter will exclude you from much of her life as soon as she can as she won't feel close enough to share anything with you.

In my case the poor judgement of my DM means that I love her but hold her at arms length and don't trust her decision making enough to let her babysit my DC, even though she isn't with her arsehole 2nd husband anymore (and acknowledges she screwed up badly). Do you want that when she grows up? Do you also want her other siblings to take her point of view and behave in the same way? If so then stay with the abusive and violent man.

Please make the only morally correct decision.