Parenting without punishment

[pinkliquorice]

In general mumsnet seems quite punishment happy and this approach seems to be heavily criticised.
Just wanted to start a thread for other parents to share their tips and experiences with not punishing.

Anyone else against punishments?
Anyone wanting to try it?

I think rewards for good behaviour is ok.

Again, context is important. I mean not ‘stop doing x and you get sweets’ but just a cuddle and a ‘you were great today, I’m really proud of how you tried so hard at sports day, let’s stop at the cafe for an ice cream on the way home, eh?’

I don’t see that’s bad. It’s showing them that days out with good behaviour are good days out.

@Anatidae

Yes, maybe but I would consider that more praise than reward.
The reward may happen after, but I wouldn’t use it beforehand like if you try hard at sports day I’ll get you an ice cream or if you pass that test you can have a toy.
If we were getting an ice cream it would be independent of weather they had tried hard at sports day.
But I do think rewarding good behaviour is much better than punishing bad behaviour.

I do see where you are coming from 2014 me

The natural consequence is that your sibling doesn't like you and will probably pinch you back, but that's not always much of a disincentive for a bored or irritated 9 year old. I know my two will irritate each other on purpose out of boredom and if one sulks off its part of the fun.

I tend to seperate them and just explain that's not a great response to being bored and talk through what could be done instead and what they need to do to make their sibling feel better.

I guess the thing to ask is does the no screen time add anything? Do they stop quicker, does it happen less often. It might do for you as we are all different.

I can see saying stop or we'll take screens away works but then I just say 'stop because it's mean' and it also stops.

Oh, okay...so why not just cut punishment out of society completely? Is it what you would like? Let's demolish prisons and let the prisoners out to roam free to everybody's pleasure. Nobody should have consequences to their actions because that's what they were brought up on. If you weren't punished as a kid why would you be punished as an adult? Punishment only wrecks a human being's fragile little psyche.
If someone robs your house, heck, let them be! If someone rapes you and beats you within an inch of your life just give them a speech about not to do it again. Problem solved!

pinkliquorice
Hello! We dont punish at all. I would describe our approach closest to Alfie Kohn et al (Unconditional Parenting).
I never used punishments when (many years ago) I nannied either.
Everything is easier when you work together in a team in my experience

why not just cut punishment out of society completely? Is it what you would like? Let's demolish prisons and let the prisoners out to roam free to everybody's pleasure. Nobody should have consequences to their actions because that's what they were brought up on. If you weren't punished as a kid why would you be punished as an adult?

We know that prison doesn’t work. Locking people up with other criminals doesn’t make them more sorry about what they’ve done. It isolated and makes them want to hurt society even more.

By all means put them where they can’t do harm. But also treat them and offer counselling and education and a reason to go straight.

uma

But there are consequences - as a kid if you chuck the iPad it gets taken off you. As an adult if you rob a bank you get jailed.

I think what individual parents see as non punishment is very different. I know plenty who have well behaved kids and really good boundaries. They know it doesn’t mean kids have free reign to do anything they want without consequence. It just means they don’t lash out in anger and try to work as a team and treat everyone with respect.

Having said that, I think some parents DO just have no boundaries and are too wet. I know a few of those as well . They’re generally entitled adults raising entitled kids. The type who let their kids run riot in cafes. Or the parents I saw letting their kids scooter around a cafe where some poor waitress was desperately trying to not spill hot drinks on them while the parents sat indulgently chatting about how they were such live wires :/

Confusion here about natural and logical consequences. Natural consequences have no input from the parent, ie natural consequence of throwing is that toy/window/TV is broken. The logical consequence of throwing is that the toy is removed so it can't be thrown again.

..He found it hugely entertaining to see someone lose their rag and so he pressed her buttons a few times to see her roar.

This level of disrespect for a teacher would be totally unacceptable to me.

Indeed, what an insufferable brat. Poor teachers they work bloody hard and have to put up with that. I bet she wanted to slap his face! My hand would itch!

I read the Alfie Kohn book & didn't like it, wasn't remotely convinced.

I went online & read really crazy discussion boards where people described tying themselves up in horrible knots in effort to conform with Kohn's ideas.

I'm not a saint & need to set boundaries so that I know things will happen how they need to happen. I also find my kids like me setting limits & rules so they don't have to take responsibility for so many problems they find too difficult to grapple with.

Best of luck... whatever you think you're up to with "No Punishment".

It's all punishment no matter how you dress it up it's just varied.

Sigh

Everything is easier when you work together in a team in my experience smile

I can just imagine your child saying 'oh shut up Susan' when your trying to 'work as a team'

Ok what's about homework?
DS refuses to do any, the consequence of this is detention after school, which may result in him missing a club, and he then attends catch-up club

How would you accept a punishment for your child, which may or may not include natural consequences?

There has been a lot of good, interesting but different points of view on this thread - and actually it's nice for once to see people disagree and if not turn into a slanging match on here!

For me, I think it's all about balance. I, in general, consider myself a fairly 'gentle' parent - but not as in the official Gentle Parenting thing. I find most of that a load of sanctimonious old twaddle. When I say gentle I mean I don't yell, I don't hit, I try to look at why the behaviour is happening and address it before I resort to telling off and I try to let my (young) child learn for himself when something is wrong. However on the other side of it I do think it's my job to teach him to to grow into a well rounded, functioning member of society, and that starts with behaviour. If that means consequences/punishments/corrections then that's what I'll do.

I think most of us here can say if we're honest we've all encountered children who are misbehaving, or being horribly entitled, or rude whose parents just smile indulgently and sprout some guff about 'aren't they spirited!' or 'we let them set their own boundaries' etc. while you sit there and think 'aren't you going to do something?' We've also seen parents roaring at children for accidentally knocking a drink over or something and you just want to cuddle the poor thing. Somewhere in the middle of that I think most people find a sensible stance - for me that can include punishments if it's age appropriate and required.

@GreenTulips

Well why does he refuse to do homework?
Can he not do it? Is it too hard? Does he need you to help? Does he need more support at school? Does he need a private tutor? Is he stressed? Can he not concentrate? Is something happening with his teacher or classmates?
What I would do depends on the answer to those questions.
But I really can’t understand how blackmailing a child with no Tv or being sent to their room if they don’t do their homework will help.
If he’s refusing to do his homework there is a reason, he isn’t doing it because he likes having a detention.
I would need to sort out with my child and the school why he is refusing to do homework.

I think pensieve and I are on the same page :)

My job as a parent is to protect and raise my kid and to turn them into a secure adult who can function well in the society he’s in. That means he has to learn how the rules of the world work. I try to do that in as tension free a way as possible because frankly that’s nicer for everyone. I don’t like shouting and I avoid that wherever I can.
At the same time, he has boundaries, routines and rules. Those form a boundary and within that boundary he has a lot of freedom.

It’s working well for us so far. I don’t follow anyone’s doctrine slavishly, and I’m open to change as he grows and develops.

pinkliquorice He’s not doing his homework because he doesn’t fancy doing it and can’t see the point of it. Source: me as a teenager. There doesn’t always have to be a pathology around it to diagnose surely?

Incidentally I think this gentle parenting sounds great. I’m going to chat to my wife about it and see if we want to try it when the children are older. Takes the stress out of things!

No excuses from me regarding ds2's short foray into disobedience but at seven discovering through watching others that you had the power to trigger a huge reaction must have been exciting. It lasted less than a fortnight and ds reverted to the well behaved child he always had been, no punishment from me needed just an explanation that not everyone reacts the same way and it wasn't very kind to do something that made someone angry even if their reaction was extreme.
Not sure that repeated extreme reactions are very effective either tbh because as much as ds found it entertaining at first it soon became boring and those on the receiving end regularly didn't seem to learn much from it either as the class in general seemed to behave far worse that year than they did in previous and subsequent years with different teachers using different methods.

Incidentally I think this gentle parenting sounds great. I’m going to chat to my wife about it and see if we want to try it when the children are older. Takes the stress out of things!

Why not now?

Why is he refusing to do homework?

Let's see, the XBox is more fun, ditto playing out with friends, or going to cricket club, or he can't be bothered - all of the above in different combinations

What do you suggest?

@GreenTulips

If punishing him is working for you then keep with it, I don’t know your son.
I know not one parenting style fits every child and that is bot why I made this thread.
With my children there would be something more going on and that kind of attitude and issue would not be resolved by punishing them.

Interesting thread.

I too struggle to see the clear line between consequence and punishment. A lot of it seems to be semantics but I wonder if it is to do with the intention behind it?

I found the resources from Janet Lansbury quite helpful in getting into the head of my DS (20 months). At toddler age most of the things he does appear highly irrationale from my perspective, but I try my (frustrated) best to see things from his perspective and acknowledge his feelings and desires, whilst physically stopping him from doing anything that would harm himself or others (e.g. jumping from the top of the stairs )

It's bloody exhausting!