What is more beneficial for children... A SAHP or 2 working parents and childcare?

[Candlefairy101]

Hi, I'm not trying to start a debut I am just generally interested in people opinions on the subject.

I have been both a SAHP and a mum working full time. With my youngest I have decided to stay at home but with my oldest I worked full time and he spent a lot of time at nursery. I still feel guilt about this (I don't know why I feel guilty about all those nursery hours just so I could finish my degree) because 1) he can't remember it and 2) he has a mum with a career.

BUT now with my youngest I have decided to stay at home and wonder how/if my children will be effected by each decision and difference growing up lifestyle.

How do mum AND dads feel about this subject also DADS do you like the idea of you wife/ partner being at home with the children?

mY mum when growing up was always a SAHP and then did a 360* turn and worked all the hours under the sun (her choose she didn't have to), I was sad because I always felt comfort at school or out playing that she was always at home, always on standby if you know what I mean?

Love to here everyone's opinion x

Squizita I'm talking about parents. Men are included. Your argument is that rich women working is better for society? Funnily enough I don't think it has to be a rich woman in order to do those jobs you've mentioned...but of course I am the one being prejudiced!

You say either parent "can" work part time but:
-to you this is within a 9-5 scenario
-you ignore that it's not always possible
-you mention maleness as a reason why your own midwife wouldn't be party to issues in your argument
-you talk constantly about how it's ok to work if you "have" to but not if your spouse earns more (feminist issue).

The reason you think you aren't talking about women is you either haven't researched or haven't lived extensively enough as a working woman in the uk.
It's what might be called an "I'm alright jack" attitude.

Simply put, your ideal would mainly have women working outside the home branded selfish but not men, because although you don't mention gender you mention all the situations that would make it mostly women.
It would be like me saying at a diverse work place "the only thing we will serve in the cafeteria is bacon" then acting aghast that people think I'm being unfair on vegetarians and some religions because I just hadn't thought it through.

My db and SIL both work full time, they have two dc.

My sis (two dc) works full time and her dh stays at home with the kids ATM, but he goes from one temp job to another so my lot of the time they both work full time.

SIL and bil have 3 dc, bil works full time, and SIL part and term time.

Bil and SIL have two dc, bil works part time, SIL stays at home.

I have one dc, dh works and I stay at home. In the past I've worked and dh stayed at home.

We each have different lives, but I can say with certainty that my family love their dc, and their dcs are all a joy (most of the time) to be around and are very very loved. We all know that each other is doing what they have to or what's best for their individual family. Isn't that what most families do? Where does the judginess come from?

Stroke - that's fair enough. I can understand those reasons, and while it's not what I'd choose I can understand why someone in your situation would. I did say that I don't think WOHP are bad parents - just that that particular decision is selfish. I'm sure I make loads of decisions others think are selfish!

In your case, it actually seems quite unselfish as you recognise stuff you're not good at and let your kids do it somewhere else

No that wasn't my point. I gave examples to counter your patronising "have to" comments about that being the ok way to work.

The fact you cannot extrapolate information and summarise clearly at 21 is concerning. I'd expect an average 16 year old to be able to follow the through line of a discussion they are engaged in.
But you're hearing what you want to (eg I'm prejudiced because I gave the example of a doctor, ignoring all the other examples bar your male midwife) or hysterically twisting things like someone commenting on a face book meme.

Squizita I mentioned my midwife was make because you said "show this to your midwife see what she thinks"

1. I've already said it's not always possible
2. I didn't say but not if your spouse earns more - I said its selfish to work more hours than necessary. I apply that to either parent

Don't see how that is sexist

Squizita thanks for proving you just want to be rude rather than debate, I figured as much when a lot of what you're saying has been addressed in previous posts you obviously can't be arsed to read

No. I'm not being rude.
I am picking apart the flaws almost everyone else has spotted.
You are getting upset and interpreting this as rude.

Do you realise how rude and condescending it is, for example, to graciously tell another mother she's ok according to your system because she realises what she isn't good at? You think that was a nice thing to do, don't you. You don't realise that she doesn't need your permission or judgement and indeed it's patronising, especially as you have neither children nor a career to base your rather rigid way of thinking on.

Stroke, if you're fine with being "selfish" then okay. To answer your question because I think you should put your kids needs above your own. I understand some people love their careers, I didn't think people loved them as much as their children.

Well first, no one said that.

Second, others on this thread have been remarkably patient in trying to explain to you how they feel their children's long term needs are better served by them working in a 'conventional' full time role.

You don't want to hear or understand it for some reason.

There is a third option - two working parents who somehow swing it so that one parent is always at home.

What is "most beneficial" varies for child to child, of course.

lash I'm sorry but you not sound so bright let's blame your pregnancy hormones Bless.

I do not love my career. I do not love things. I do however love people, say my family, dc, dh, parents etc.

Working, striving, learning, are all things that give our family pleasure and fulfilment. My dc are like that too, as are parents / grandparents etc. that's what we are like hence spending my life at home with the kids all day every day would make me not be my best self which would not be as nice for dc as being my best self. So your argumentation is sadly simplistic and boring and you will have to learn to empathise a bit more with other people's ways of life if you want to be an effective parent.

Have a look at this link www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-33269727 if you can be bothered. Harvard study showing that Working mothers benefit daughters.

Frankly thinking that mothers don't love their children as much as their careers is either thick as pig sh** or goading.

I gave birth end of my second year at uni, and went straight back rather than taking time out. I've been called selfish for putting DD in nursery from a very young age so that OH and I could continue our studies. The majority of the comments were based around me 'loving student life more than DD', especially as during first year I'd been your typical 18 year old drunkard student.

Bet you anything I'd have been called the same had I dropped out and claimed benefits for a year while I looked after DD. Moral of the story - mums can't win.

Now that I'm about to graduate, I'm working full time while OH is a SAHD, and then DD goes back into nursery in September while he does his last year of uni. Do I have any regrets or any guilt? Not one bit. Do I feel like I've copped out on being a parent? Again, not a bit.

There is no answer to this is there? It totally and utterly depends on your personal circumstances.

As for this notion of only being selfish if you work more than you "need" to but not if you work the exact amount of hours you "need"

What a strange thing to say. I am confused. Ah well, four pages of debate and your sticking to your guns so I won't waste my finger energy.

Depends. Being a SAHM would make me a very boring person (not because all SAHMs are boring, just that it would make me one). Being a SAHD would make my boyfriend an alcoholic.. haha.. but slightly seriously. Beer for breakfast you say?

My child gets bored with just me/him/us too, and I find lots of mother and baby type groups tedious. I have a couple of mates with babies, but they are going back to work part time, so I'd not be able to see them all that often. I think my child will benefit hugely from nursery - she's sociable and curious, and I don't feel that I can meet her needs at home. I think that she'd spend a lot of her time being dragged around doing the boring household stuff that even I hate, whereas if I'm at work I can pay someone to do that stuff for me, and spend more quality time with my daughter when we see each other.

But it's totally dependent on child, finances, parent preference, career choices/options. We're lucky that we can both work part time and afford to work part time.

Terry Yup if I'm comforting someone else's crying bullied child and the clock hits 5pm, I need to be outta there or I'm selfish ...

Absolutely no awareness in the theory that work isn't solely monetary in nature but carries responsibilities.

Squizita it's an Internet forum the thread asked for my opinion. If you can't take others opinions then don't post. I'm not being judgemental, I've given my reasons for thinking what I do.

Drying, I'm quite confident in my intellectual ability thanks, don't really need a stranger online questioning it. If you're going to insult someone's intelligence, it also makes sense to grammar check the sentence.

Again I haven't said anywhere that people should do what I say. I merely said what the ideal is (which is what the thread asked) and explained why. I don't stand there telling women and men to stay home.

Study shows their daughters get better jobs. I skimmed it (I'll read it in detail later, currently busy) but it doesn't say anything about their happiness?

God yes the thought of doing the whole mum and baby group routine makes me want to reach for the gin... give me eight hours in an office any day

You can't measure a child's happiness by the hours they work, it's just stupid there are so many variables. A lot of women or men are ace at it and some people are not. Parents could have issues, some childcare providers are better than others.

You aren't going to get your choice rubber stamped as the correct one I'm afraid so as long as your way works for you and yours quite frankly stop being such a judgemental knob.

Well colour DP selfish as well. We could live off my salary (minimal luxuries, basic holidays, we're both public sector anyway so neither of us are raking it in). Should he feel guilty he works? Funny, no-one's suggested that to him.

And sometimes (clutch your pearls now) we both take the day off and leave DD in nursery so we can see a matinee and have lunch. It's bloody brilliant.

What's need anyway? When DP was made redundant he got depressed. I'd say he 'needs' to work, then. But maybe he should just be miserable, or the sheer joy of daily toddler care would just lift him out of mental illness.

Drying- a colleague and I were discussing the reporting (not the content really) of that study today- the assumption that we would feel guilty and can now rest easy. Bollocks. I don't feel guilty. I refuse to. Even when I'm away, the other side of the planet, for a week or so.

I wholeheartedly agree with Stroke. I feel the same totally about parenting. I adore my DD but I am a far better mummy for working. Unfortunately I work full time as my company won't allow me to reduce my hours. However despite my DD being in full time nursery every day, we ensure she is only in from 8.30-4.30pm every day. One of us finishes early to ensure we collect her and once she's home she has our full attention till bedtime. That's our decision as parents though and we feel happy knowing we have that undivided time on a daily basis and obviously at weekends too.

I would be very unhappy being a sahm but I respect those that choose to do that. I firmly believe you do what is right for you as a person and for your family and we all make our own decisions. Parenting is hard enough without judgements from others. At the end of the day there is no manual to all of this and it's what makes you happy as a happy mummy equals a happy baby.

Everyone chooses to parent differently right down to bottle v breast feeding, dummy or no dummy, co sleeping or not. But you do what you think is right at the time and I think the same logic applies to being a sahm v working mums.

My mum worked full time & was ace. My DH's mum has never worked and is an appalling narcissistic nightmare that her own children barely tolerate. Fortunately, his dad (who worked) was lovely & made up for it.

I know for a fact my mum was the better mum (and is the better granny). She is all round the best - some people are great at being parents.

Lashes whether you work or not, you may be a shit parent. Far too early for you to be so smug - ask your children what they think in 18 years time.

You are the one (and it's not just me saying this, is it?) who is sticking stubbornly to a premise which is full of logical and practical flaws.

Well done at attempting tone matching in that last post though. You're still not addressing the questions posed in the discussion fully though.

I know how to debate and discuss.
What is happening here is you are being absolutely roasted by several people because your original premise was flawed, your rhetoric is patchy, you lose track of your own points and when you tone match/try to pick up on points it highlights gaps in your comprehension.
We are interested in a proper discussion. You're not really providing that. You have shown time and again your high handed naivity. And now you're taking your ball home.

One day, when you can't get through to a midwife or hv with a sick baby, or when you are in agony birthing (as most women are) and one team leaves for another to come in, delaying pain relief, or when you can't get hold of your child's teacher at your convenience. .. Please don't come back and rant on AIBU about it. Because you've chosen to dig your heels in about this - and reflecting on this "long hours = selfish" thing might be enlightening once you really see how shift work isn't always fun/money/social life, but actually really important.

Squizita it's an Internet forum the thread asked for my opinion. If you can't take others opinions then don't post.

I'd suggest that if having your opinion challenged and probed is something you find uncomfortable or difficult, then you may not enjoy large swathes of Mumsnet.

All opinions are not equal. One of the things I like about Mumsnet is that most posters recognise that.

People discover which opinions are worth listening to and which ones are uninformed bollocks, and all steps in between, by asking questions, discovering and challenging the assumptions that lie behind them, and finding out if they're based on evidence.

That's what other posters have been doing to the opinion you stated. It's happened to most of us, and rightly so. If you put 'just your opinion' out there, you shouldn't expect people to pat you on the head and say 'how lovely, we've all got our opinions haven't we, let's not discuss them!'

*I understood people were referring to the social interaction at work, when nolim said "people have mentioned benefits that aren't just monetary"
*

I am sorry but your assumpion was wrong. A job is more than an opportunity to socialize imo. And satisfying a dc needs does not imply being with them 24/7 imo. But your opinion is yours and you have every right to it.

AggressiveBunting

Re: after school care vs them being with me from 3-6

• they get to play with other DC thereby developing their social skills- I can't offer this at home

-not working means limited money for other after school activities

-DCs are different ages with different interests so hard to entertain both

-a home could never have the space or range of equipment an after school club has

-we live in a flat so no outside space-ASC use the playground

-during the summer ASC take them on day trips out that cost much less than if we went as a family

-as much as I try to discourage it when they come straight in from school they want screen time, they have more screen time now than when they had ASC

I'd much rather they went again. It has nothing to do with working.