The problem with my daughter's Muslim school friends - or rather their parents

[Jules2]

I wonder if anyone else has experienced/is experiencing this problem. My 10-year-old daughter goes to a Haringey junior school with a fairly high number of Muslim children - the make up approx. 50% of her class of 28. Her group of friends in school are mostly Muslim girls. But unfortunately (with a couple of very occasional exceptions) these poor girls do not seem to be allowed to mix with non-Muslims outside of school hours. Over the years, invitations to come to our house to play, or come to parties have been rejected with many an implausible excuse. My DD has gone to maybe a couple of parties held by her friends in 5+ years of school. Weekends are taken up with Islamic school for the most part - or they stay at home. They are not allowed to go to the cinema, swimming or whatever with non-Muslims. I find it incredibly frustrating and annoying to see my daughter upset because she is unable to socialise with these girls outside of school. She doesn't understand why - and neither do I really. The school is fond of billing itself as a multicultural, inclusive school but the message doesn't seem to have gotten through to this section of the population. I'm afraid I have started to believe that if immigrants to this country - from any racial or religious background - do not want their children to mix with children from other ethnic/religious backgrounds (including British-born children), then maybe they have chosen the wrong country to come and live in. (My DD is half Chinese, by the way - but born here.) I'd be happy to hear from some Muslim parents with a different attitude - I hope there are some out there.

When my children get told that they shouldn't be celebrating birthdays or listening to music, I just tell them that some people believe that but we don't.
I tell them that people believe in lots of different things and we still need to be kind and nice to each other.
I actually feel like saying 'what utter nonesense' but I don't.

I'm really surprised by the responses to the OP on here.

We are living in a world of perpetual instability largely due, IMHO, by segregation and misunderstandings of others' beliefs and religions. And it's getting so much worse.

How wonderful if future generations could learn from our errors. If we aren't killing the crap out of each other because our gods are different.

I do feel the way forward for the world is one based on education and compassion and tolerance. That will only happen when we integrate and engage and understand each other. Already, OP's DD will grow up feeling "different" and resentful.

None of this is racist. It's frustration. I'm so bloody fed up with the world and its intolerances.

Let's be allowed to express frustrations that little girls who play at school can't mix out of school simply because their parents have different beliefs.

What message does that send these girls?

Nicki yes, it sounds like you have a nice way of speaking about these things, but it's very hard to have friends who have such radically different views. I couldn't be friends with a man who thinks women are subservient, how could I be friends with a woman who thinks that? Rooner, yes it's not a good message, but so long as no law is broken, then nothing can be done, otherwise it's just basically domestic colonialism.

I'm not looking for a fight nor I calling you racist, I'm questioning your live and let live attitude, being racist isn't solely a white trait.

Nicki I reject play dates for my DS because I don't see the point, like MsDeVere I was born and raised in London and Never went on any. I personally think you over thinking it, I am sure the Somali mother has never given you a second thought.

But that's what tolerance is. I have to live and let live - the alternative is trying to change people's minds about their religion and their values. I'm not going to do that. I wouldn't say the Muslim parents in the OP are being racist either. To be totally honest. Unless I'm giving the benefit of the doubt too much, it probably is more about values.

Rooner, I would say current instability is not a failure to understand the values of others, it's a failure to tolerate them and to live and let live. Problems with ISIS for e.g. are down to people trying to wipe out other people who believe differently, instead of just letting them get on with it in their own sweet way.

Well said Rooners

I was born and raised in London TheXx. 'Going to play' was very normal.

Good for you. I live in London too and we do lots of play dates. As you have no personal knowledge of this particular situation you cannot possibly be "sure" of anything about it. My dd has been told a number of times that they can't be friends or have play dates with her so I am reasonably certain that thought has been given to it generally by the mother even if not to me personally. The discussion has rather moved on from my personal situation anyway.

'Going to play' for me meant leaving the house by myself and seeing who else was at the playground or lurking about. It wasn't organised especially by my mum.

Well things change don't they? Play Dates are the norm now, if not then. I'm not actually sure what relevance adults not having ever gone on play dates has to this discussion tbh.

Nicki I must admit it sounds very hard and very sad for your dd.

Well that wasn't allowed for us as children TheXx (not considered safe) and it is pretty rare now.

I don't know one child that is allowed out to play alone where I live. At about 13 or 14, they start going out and about alone but before that it's organised, rightly or wrongly it's just how it is here.

I'm a bit confused. Are some posters saying that play times and lunchtimes are enough to form friendships and socialise?

Nicki I live right next Streatham aka little Mogadishu, I see loads of Somali kids playing out mixing with whoever is out on the playground or on the council estate green playing the same we I did. I don't think much has changed.

Thanks frustrated she's over it now and has other friends it was a while ago. Thing is she has ASD so it's hard for her to make and maintain friendships and she really struggled for a while.

Then you don't live far from me TheXx and we are then getting into class differentiations. None of my DCs friends (or my DC or indeed my friends' DC) were/are allowed out independently before secondary age.

And I have never heard Streatham refered to as little Mogadishu

That's not my experience, though I do think that on estates children are more likely to go out to play as it feels safer and has a more community feel. It doesn't happen where I live. Funny thing is though my friend's 10 year old flies all over the world unaccompanied but would never be allowed to go to the park alone. We just don't do it.

I think there is a difference between an organised event far from home and playing on the estate green where your mum can see you playing from the window.

i always had people to play or for tea or we would go to park or play with neighbours in suburban setting.

always encouraged my dc to have friends over for tea etc.

my own childhood in the 70s, things are different now and many more cars.

playing on the estate green where your mum can see you playing from the window.

Yes - that isn't available when you live on a street.

The area around Gleneagles road and the surrounding high street has been called little Mogadishu for a while now.