The problem with my daughter's Muslim school friends - or rather their parents

[Jules2]

I wonder if anyone else has experienced/is experiencing this problem. My 10-year-old daughter goes to a Haringey junior school with a fairly high number of Muslim children - the make up approx. 50% of her class of 28. Her group of friends in school are mostly Muslim girls. But unfortunately (with a couple of very occasional exceptions) these poor girls do not seem to be allowed to mix with non-Muslims outside of school hours. Over the years, invitations to come to our house to play, or come to parties have been rejected with many an implausible excuse. My DD has gone to maybe a couple of parties held by her friends in 5+ years of school. Weekends are taken up with Islamic school for the most part - or they stay at home. They are not allowed to go to the cinema, swimming or whatever with non-Muslims. I find it incredibly frustrating and annoying to see my daughter upset because she is unable to socialise with these girls outside of school. She doesn't understand why - and neither do I really. The school is fond of billing itself as a multicultural, inclusive school but the message doesn't seem to have gotten through to this section of the population. I'm afraid I have started to believe that if immigrants to this country - from any racial or religious background - do not want their children to mix with children from other ethnic/religious backgrounds (including British-born children), then maybe they have chosen the wrong country to come and live in. (My DD is half Chinese, by the way - but born here.) I'd be happy to hear from some Muslim parents with a different attitude - I hope there are some out there.

But equally monstersinc, nobody has to socialise with anybody else.

On an individual level the most it will cause is a few tearful children.

I know that the Koran is open to interpretation and that there are many Islamic scholars. That said, the links I posted are clearly an interpretation and I expect the quotes are direct from the Koran or Hadith. Therefore, I am led to believe that there are Muslims who believe that they should not mix with non-Muslims. This might would explain why the OP's daughter does not have her invitations accepted.
I know there are Muslims who do mix with non-Muslims, just as I know that there are many Christians who are accepting of homosexuality. And although you say, Arsenic, that those verses were written in another era, Catholic Cardinals don't pay much attention to that if you read today's news.

The Pope has some flexibility of thought though, doesn't he? (yay Pope)

(and, I gather, the Cardinals don't actually get a vote on this)

Yes, thankfully, the Pope has better ideas!

Arsenic I dont know who feeds food with alcohol in it ive just come across a few recipes that have say red wine or something in them. So as a muslim parent of course we will be cautious.

As you said no one has to socialise with anyone else. Each to their own.

It's not just Muslims- there was a big Vietnamese community at my dc's primary school, and they really didn't mix with non-Vietnamese families at all. They'd be perfectly friendly at school, albeit with limited English even though the parents were mainly of an age to have been born or at least educated here, but they really only socialised amongst themselves. Which was a shame, but in the end there's not much you could do about it.

Arsenic I dont know who feeds food with alcohol in it ive just come across a few recipes that have say red wine or something in them. So as a muslim parent of course we will be cautious.

Oh well if that's ever a part of your concern monsters, I don't know anyone who would feed those recipes to primary children, and never to anybody elses children without checking first

exactly, you would make sure you didn't make anything unsuitable.

Parents normally tell other parents if there are forbidden foods. My children used to be veggie so I told their friends' mums that they didn't eat meat. I know other children with nut allergies. Surely, dietary requirements can be spoken of and overcome.

I make nigella's banana cake, which has rum in it. I hope I would have the sense to remember to not feed it to a Muslim child, but I can see why Muslim parents might get antsy about the possibility.

Do your DC eat it Gregor?

There''s a site called MuslimWiki which seems to deplore Wikislam because Wikislam treats Islam as just another point of view. So MuslimWiki has a front page explaining why you should use it, because it's built by Muslims and so on. However if this is supposed to be the non-Islamophobic view then it still gives all the rules on flogging women and so on.

Yes, obviously they do, the alcohol burns off in the baking, so it's not alcoholic as such. And yes, visiting kids will have eaten it too. Lots of gravies and meat dishes will have small amounts of alcohol in too - again the active alcohol will have burnt off, but if any alcohol at all is taboo then obv it would be problem.

Eta. Obviously I would be alert to this possibility with dc's friends from other religions, but obviously not to the same extent as a practising Muslim or Jew would be, so I can see why people might be wary unless they knew the other parent very well. Loads of generic meat products would have pork in for eg, and that's without even getting into mislabelling like the horsemeat scandal.

But one is always careful with visiting DC anyway, no?

I check everything, ask about what can/can't be eaten.

Hehe about alcohol burning off debate. I am confident I have never sent a visiting child home three sheets to the wind. But I fully accept that strict Muslims would still consider this unacceptable, and obviously I would try to take that into account. But I would understand that the parents might still be wary, much as the parents of a nut-allergic child might be.

Arsenic- there was a recent thread on here where someone had fed her children's and niece/nephew pasta with vodka in.

You see, I like to think I can judge people quite well...

Nothing like that has ever happened to anyone I know.

Has it to you?

In fact, nothing untoward has ever happened to my DC on a playdate. Because I AM selective about where they go. Just not on the basis of religion/race/culture/creed. But choosing to accept invitations from responsible, sensible people is just, well, responsible

Do not be fooled by the name, wiki Islam is an anti-Islam site, full of many, many distortions.

To quote a friend "wiki Islam is really handy, because it has everything Islamophobes believe in one place".

Islam q&a espouses a very conservative version of Islam.

I would recommend the Suhaib Webb link.

Google with care people!

IPity, what about MuslimWiki? Is WikiIslam really anti-Islam, or just a more neutral view, which takes Islam as a point of view rather than The Truth. So a more neutral view would look rather hostile to a devoted or fundamental Muslim, that's why it's branded 'anti-Islam'. What's your opinion?

The thing is, most people on this thread wouldn't chose their friends because a few Islamic rules could be used to make the religion look bad. But some Muslims seem to do exactly that - chose friends according to the rules.

Frustrated - I can tell the difference between neutral and hostile, Wiki Islam is firmly the latter.

I would not find a neutral view to be in any way offensive.

Muslimwiki is run by Muslims, BTW.

People choose their friends because of all sorts of reasons and are entitled to do so, not sure why some Muslims possibly doing so, for possibly reasons should be a cause of such angst, let alone talk that they should leave the country.

But if you are a devoted Muslim, it might be harder. Would you accept that. A devoted Catholic might find a calculated and rational analysis of the Catholic take on abortion to be hostile to Catholicism, while it was in fact simply neutral. Could the same be happening here? I vote a certain way, and have to work hard to be impartial at my job - because one simply sees things with different eyes when one has a dog in the fight.