Now ATTENTION here all you first-time mothers, listen up...

[emkana]

I have a ds, he is my third child. He is five weeks old. Atm I feed him whenever and he sleeps whenever he wants. Evenings are mostly spent with him on mine or dh's lap while I'm MNetting or watching TV or even sitting outside. Ds comes to bed with me when I go to bed.
I did the same with my two dd's. Over time things started to evolve into some sort of a routine, gradually we moved to a proper "bedtime" etc., and now they are five and three and very, very good at going to bed, and have been for a long, long time.
It really saddens me when I read all these worried posts about how to get a baby of a few weeks to settle in the evening etc., and all it seems to lead to often (not always, granted) is stress and worry and more stress.
I just want to reassure you all that no bad habits will be formed if you just with the flow for now and enjoy your baby and let him/her be with you.

of course, rocwen, but some people get more wound up by following the routines than just mooching along with the baby. each to their own.

It's true all those books, naming none in particular, are out there to scare us and no one should follow them in the first few weeks. Laughed when a dear friend asked if I had dd2 in a routine yet? She was one week old. Friend's baby was a preemie and had come home from the hospital on a strict four hourly schedule, she had no idea that they didn't all pop out in the maternity ward like that.
Having said that, I have had two screamy, colicky babies who disappointinly are definitely happier in routines. If you have a baby who can get itself to sleep anyhow anywhere then lucky, lucky you. I am with the poster whose baby yelled down coffee shops, restaurants, malls etc. I've had no choice with either o my dds but to stay at home to let them get the naps they so clearly crave and find hard to get the hang of and then take them out cheery and refreshed. As with all bits of parenting (hate that word) to each his own, I'd have loved to go with the flow a bit more but had no choice and I think the total anti-routiners don't understand how difficult some babies can be

I let my boys sort out their own routines while they were babies, although you do have to remember that they change the routine on a frequent basis. I used to cuddle them to sleep until they were about 2 and I really enjoyed it - still have lots of cuddles with ds2. From 2 we insisted on the 7 o'clock bed time, and they have been very good. Even if they are awake, they will stay in bed and look at a book and not get up.

I think you have to sort out what works for you and your baby, but I don't agree with a fixed routine - it feels very restrictive.

Great thread.

Those bloody parenting guides. Making women feel they are bad mothers because their babies cry a lot, sleep erratically and don't do as they are told. They are babies not fucking Tiny Tears dolls.

Think I am going to write an extremely expensive manual called 'How To Make A Lovely Bonfire Out of Parenting Manuals: A LoveAngel Guide'.

maniacal, witch-like laughter emoticon

p.s. I always feel like saying to stressed out new parents: 'There is a secret club of women who's 2 and 3 and 4 yr olds still dont sleep through the night. We are the hardcore sleep deprived. You are merely a little bit sleep disturbed. There is a time for stresisng. That time is not now.'
But of course, that would be mean :-)

Great thread but somewhat reading my posts (old nickname).
Ds is 2 now. Relax.
Childrens lives are a series of phases.
There may be a 'won't settle to sleep alone' phase, followed by a 'will settle after 15 minutes but will probably wake at 3am and not settle for 2 hours' phase and then a 'takes 4 hours to settle despite various attempts at shush pat, leaving the room,singing, stories, babytv dreamy journey' phase.
It is not neccessarily a bad thing to bring your toddler into your bed if they wake in the night.

These all sound like very wise words indeed but I am concerned re - how does it work when I have to go back to work??? Can't feed on demand when I am not there??

Not critcising in any way, I'm in no position to, but truly DON'T GET IT!! Help me please?!

Having twins adds a whole new dimension to this, unfortunately you need a routine or you pretty much get NO sleep. You also realise how different babies are from each other when one twin regularly needs 1.5 hr nap and the other needs 2.5 to 3 hrs.

Now I am 37 weeks pregnant with one baby and am definitely planning to be more chilled out in the first 2-3 months. But as someone else mentioned, when you have older children your little one is pretty much forced into some kind of routine re: school runs etc....

I guess the ultimate advice is to go with your instincts, every baby is different, and if a book makes you feel uncomfortable then just get the matches and toast yourself some marshmallows .

Can anyone advise?

Caz10 when are you planning on going back?

You might need to start a new thread, would depend on how old your baby would be i think

Totally agree with OP. I breastfed dd2 on demand and had her in a bedside cot next to my bed with side rolled back till she was 13 months. Did not worry about routines. Wish I had not stressed with dd1 and gone with the flow. she wouldn't have any thing to do with routines and in the end sorted herself out. Now both dds (5 and 3) sleep beautifully.

I also feel the same way about eating. SO many first time mums angst about how much and what their dcs eat as we probably did when dd1 was a baby. If they stopped worrying and allowed their dcs to be the judge of how much they want to eat they would save so much stres.

With my first, I spent hours alone in a darkened room trying to get him to go to sleep at 7pm. It was awful.

My second, I wore him in a sling. And to get him to sleep, I went for a little walk down the road and back again. For about 8 weeks he always slept on me. It was heaven for both of us. I knew where he was, didn't have to check if he was breathing, could rock him back to sleep if he so much as stirred.

Then there came a point where it wasn't workking for me or him any more. We gradually moved him up to his own room.

At 10 weeks, he discovered that he liked to suck a muslin. Since then he's been a doddle at bed-time.

He's rubbish at staying asleep, mind you. But he's only 5 months. I'm just going to give him a bit longer. And when I feel that things MUST change, we'll do some training as per the books.

The thing is, the books are all there to try and help you be a more confident parent. But they often play to your insecurities and at the end of the day, the best thing to do is LISTEN TO YOUR BABY and listen to what makes YOU happy.

Huzzah for Emkana! You are so right! I ignored (almost all) suggestions about "getting into a routine" and I followed my instincts and did exactly the same as you. DS was in my arms almost all the time until he was three or four months old, he demand-fed all day and night, he co-slept with us off and on until he was eighteen months old, and he still comes and gets in with us in the early hours some nights. And you know what? I haven't created any "rods for my own back" (how I hate that phrase). He goes to bed in his own bed with no trouble, he stays asleep most nights, he is a good and non-fussy eater, and is a confident, secure and outgoing little human being. So all you first-timers out there, follow your instincts, and if you want to cuddle your baby all day long, you just go ahead and do it!

I am a classic first time mum (e.g. anxious) but I am also by nature pretty anal and organised, so I'd always imagined that I would try to get the baby into a routine at some point, and I did. He is actually a very chilled out, calm baby by nature, probably would have been whether we'd had a routine or not. For me, the routine was about feeling in control, where after the birth you're all over the place. I was hanging on to even the smallest shred of being able to have a plan. For some it might feel relaxing to go with the flow, but I'm just not that kind of person (for example I'm the kind of person who will look at the shampoo and think 'ooh no, I used that last time, better rotate them ..

So it really is so individual. For me the routine enabled me to stay sane and certainly didn't harm DS (he seemed so happy anyway).

However I do remember the first few days in the hospital where he was in this perspex cot beside my bed and I really really wanted him to be with me, but I thought I couldn't because then he wouldn't learn to sleep on his own (so ridiculous but you're crazy just after the birth), and then I got very upset about our individualistic culture and how he would never sleep with anyone until he was more or less grown up and had a girl/boyfriend, and yet I was already making that decision not to co sleep with him!

Phew! So might sleep with the next baby for at least the first few days. but probably still stick with the routine. .. Not sure what lesson anyone can draw from that!

This is just what I was looking for New mum and was feeling guilty about not having attempted any kind of routine at 3.5 weeks. Was going to buy some parenting manuals, but maybe I won't bother. I'm feeding on demand and it's lovely (still getting a decent amount of sleep), bed-sharing (which I'd been feeling like a Bad Mum about, but we're all enjoying it) and using a sling. Plus am happy spending hours just cuddling and staring at her (but was feeling guilty about the housework!). Now I'm more confident that it's going right after all. Also, reckon the baby seems quite chilled out as a result (that's not to say she doesn't cry though!).

I remember being in hospital after my emergency c-section and cuddling my baby all the time. I was tutted at by two other mums who told me I was storing up trouble by paying her so much attention at a few days old! I remember thinking, 'sod them' then. If you can't marvel at your baby when it's just been born...

littlebella I will have to go back between around 4-6 mths after the birth (waiting for mat pay statment!).

Like the sound of what everyone is doing here, but can't see how I could manage co-sleeping, feeding on demand etc when I'm back at FT work. Can anyone give me any experience of juggling the 2, or is one or the other do you think?

caz, I went back when DS was 4 months (lucky enough to have a nanny cos living abroad).. I must say that it was good having a routine.. I expressed milk at work and fed him myself when I was home. Bear in mind that with the easiest baby (which mine is), they're not realistically going to sleep for that long till about 3-4 months. My DS started to go from 11 pm to 6-7 am at about 4 months, but I don't think I could have handled work so easily if he hadn't... there's a great site www.workandpump.com if you are planning to..

Caz, I didn't go back to work until DS was thirteen months old. By then, he wasn't feeding much during the day, so I carried on BFing on demand except when he was at nursery (he was there Mon-Thurs). On reflection, this is the one thing I might change - he went on feeding two or three times during the night until he was 18 months old and it was very hard on me being woken up that much. But it may also have been very important for him to have that extra closeness and reassurance at night, given that we were apart for four longish days every week. Who knows? I am sure it would be possible to express enough to keep EBF going if you did go back to work earlier (in fact, I had a colleague who did exactly that) but it would be demanding, I think.

Bumping this rather spiffing thread!

Oh how I wish I found this sooner... my DD is 7 months old and I give her all the cuddles I can - she's already starting to want to get put on the floor to play so I'm gonna hold her as much as I can.

I remember when DD was just 3 weeks old I posted on a message board (didn't know about MN back then!) how she didn't want to be put down and I was scared of "spoiling" her. Thankfully I got pretty much the same advice as Emkana's OP.

Great thread, it's so important to empower new mums to trust their own instincts - hard when we live in a culture that looks outside for "expert" advice.

I'm a first timer and pleased I followed my instinct to keep my baby with me at all times (well she kind of decided and I followed rather than doing battle) - lots of sling action by day and co-sleeping at night. She'd cluster feed and snooze on my lap in the evening and come to bed with us. She's now 4 months and I've just tried putting her to bed again (after failing miserably early doors) because she was starting to get distracted by the telly and it felt like time... and she's taken to it like a duck to water. She, and I, were ready. She's also dictated her own routine - for now - which helps us both navigate our day.

Also glad I've finally bought Dr Sears, but glad I read Baby Whisperer too.

What a coincidence. I am a new mum. In my old life I was list and diary queen!! I was time management.

DS is now 3.5 weeks and still no signs of any feeding patterns etc. Some nights he feeds 4-5 times and then there was the momentous night of only 1 feed. It was only this morning I asked dh, should I wake him each day at the same time to encourage a routine. He already has a bath and bed time but that is more for me and DH to try and keep some sanity.

I now see I would probably be wasting my time and energy. Not having him in a routine is really hard I am not laid back,I need to know what is happening next. That with the only just recovering from baby blues and the general shock of being a mum has made the last three weeks the hardest weeks of my life!!

I have been told by everyone "after six weeks you can see your way out, by twelve weeks things should be better". Please let that be true.

I remember arranging to meet my NCT group when dd was about 12 weeks old and the emails went something like "let's make it 10am, ds will be due his next feed then" and I remember thinking "wtf!! how does she KNOW that!!!" and feeling like a total failure because i was still feeding dd on demand. But it worked out in the end and once I started to concentrate on regular 3 hourly feeds, so I could actually leave the house without her and know she'd be ok (she wouldn't take a bottle and I gave up trying after a while) she took to it effortlessly, so she must have been ready for it.

Cupcake - my best friend said to me when dd was born and I was in the depths of babyblues and wondering what I'd done to my life that by 8 or 10 weeks I'd be able to have a meal and watch a dvd with dh with dd asleep (and not on our laps / in the sling / in the bouncy chair!!!) and I held on to that - and generally speaking she was right!!! It just kind of happened - I made no effort to get a routine together, we just fell in to a pattern and I started to follow her schedule. By 6 weeks i would say it all got much easier to plan things, by 12 we were on our way to being in a predictable routine.

Great thread, but as a 1st time mum, can we have a follow on thread about how to deal with mother's and MILs who are saying things like "you'll make a rod for your own back" or "babies need routine" or "she needs to learn to detach from you"?

Agree with Bumperlicious -we went visiting family over the weekend and DH got told several times by an aunt that he was 'spoiling' DS (5mo) by bouncing him.

Also got told by the same aunt that baby boys should only wear powder blue and white. DS was looking rather handsome in navy and green at the time.

cupcake - it is true, it really is. When ds (now 6mo) was only a couple of weeks old and we were still in shock/ bfing problems etc. 6 weeks seemed a lifetime away and 12weeks inconceivable! But you do feel like you pass a bit of a mark where the dust has settled a little bit. And I am still passing little milestones like that along the way, I'm sure I always will, where certain things just seem that bit easier or manageable.

FWIW I have avoided buying any baby guides at all, going with the good old 'instinct' theory, derided as it may be , let ds eat and sleep when he wanted, somehow he has now worked himself into going to sleep at 7-7.30pm but wakes every 3 hours through the night when he used to only wake once oh well, can't have everything.. I think the getting easier thing is in large part down to getting used to functioning at constant low level exhaustion

I've also found, generally speaking, that everytime we've come up against a difficult phase/ time just riding it out and not fighting it has made it much easier. Trying to fix things like a baby waking when it wants to wake only leads to frustration..