Toddler and newborn...How??? Support thread?

[Suchanamateur]

I am in the very early days of having a newborn (9 days old) and an almost 2 yr old DS and am seriously struggling at the thought of DH going back to work in the next few days - for a number of reasons. I had a taste of it yesterday when DH had to go into the office, unexpectedly, for much of the day.

DS is an absolute joy and I totally loved the few weeks of maternity leave pre DD when we just hung out all week. But now he is in total Mummy rejection mode and terribly teary. Utterly understandable but quite upsetting.

DD is a sweet little froggy newborn, doing froggy newborn things - eating, sometimes sleeping - and mostly at inconvenient times. I had a really awful time in the early months of my DS and the scars run deep (plus PND) - so every time I can get her to nap, I can feel huge waves of anxiety washing over me. I know they are different children, but I can't help project into a future where she doesn't sleep, night or day, and wonder how I will manage - I used to walk DS in a sling for hours and hours outside but that isn't an option with two of them. It was only at around 6 months when we did some sleep training that thing started to even out a bit with DS, and then got wonderful and I understood how you might actually enjoy being a mother. Six months seems an age away!

DD is currently cluster feeding without stop from about 5/6 until 10 ish. I can just about handle the clustering later in the evening, but I've got no idea how I handle DS dinner, bath and bed with a baby clamped to me and DS saying 'Mummy no' at everything..

I know pretty much the answer to all this is grit teeth, ride it through and this too shall pass. But wondering if anyone in a similar situation wanted to join in to help it pass? Or provide wise words and comfort from somewhere out the other side?

suchan, same as Looby. Bear in mind dd is now 4 months, so we've passed the magic 3 month mark, the sun's coming out (literally and figuratively) and I'm starting to feel less ruined. Having said that, my sciatica flared up massively teh first tiem I went back, so I need to remember that I have not long had a baby!

ANd I fell over whilst wearing the baby in the sling today. Got a nosebleed and a scraped knee. I feel like I'm about 5 years old. Ah the days when I'd fall over blind drunk instead of just missing my step.

Sorry, v quick post to mark my spot. DC2 is due in May when DS will be 2.5 so will be keeping an eye out for tips! DS is having a nap so am trying to get a few jobs sorted whilst he's quiet, will be back later to read the thread properly though.

astronaut I hope you and DD are okay, I'm always worried I'll do something like that when I'm carrying either DS. Always hope I'll realise it's coming and be able to protect rather than fall onto them!

I remember the 'falling down drunk' days...much more likely to be falling over from exhaustion now

Just checking in to say hello! Happy International Knackered Women's day!

Today is the last of the three "nursery days" this week (sob) so have been enjoying pottering about with just ds2 in the day, not so much the toddler meltdowns morning and evening.

But I have been getting a few more kisses and cuddles from ds1 too, which makes my heart lift a little.

Hopefully you guys have all had some of this sunshine too, it does make it all seem a little bit easier when it's not pissing it down with rain!

grumpla how is feeding going? Sorry to hear about your bust knee Astronaut. I fell over with DS in a sling once when he was 6 weeks or so and it reduced me to a gibbering wreck. Wasn't far off it before though.

We had a relaxed nursery day today also although an almighty melt down at bedtime even though my Mum here to help. Still can't work out how to manage it without DD bring left to cry as I try to calm down two year old going batshit. Guess I've got months to practice...

Hope everyone enjoyed the sun

Well, that's my D-Day over - let me just collapse in a corner of this thread while I clutch my vino!

It was a long day, 60% filled with DD1's tantrums, 40% ok time where she was playing nice and being her usual lovely self. Some scary moments as well when DD1 tried to carry little DS2 around the room....

All not made easier because I'm trying to wean DD off TV during the day and I'm also trying to put a stop to some bad habits she's been developing recently, like whinging constantly. Had a 'debrief' with DP this evening and we agreed to keep TV/computer time to a minimum, reintroduce the daily nap, and just stand our ground on all the other issues in the hope DD will eventually return to her wonderful, resilient self.

My god, what a day!

Well done Ciske! Enjoy your well deserved wine.

Phew, Ciske

Evening all. I'm a bit wibbly today as I've had to accept that DS2 does have reflux; arse arse arse (DS1 had it too)

Never mind.

Astronaut - ouch. Nosebleed? Must have been a nasty fall.

Welcome Cairnterrier.

It's a nice cosy thread, this

Bedtime meltdown from hell tonight. Over an hour of hitting screaming wailing for cuddles etc...

Did eventually manage to calm ds1 down and in to bed but then so stressed that when I tried to feed ds2 no milk came out so he chewed my nipple to bits again.

DH now giving him a bottle and I'm back on the sodding breast pump.

We have been doing a bit better though, I'm offering breast at every feed now and managing to get him latched on about half the time. But it's still shit when I attempt for over twenty minutes and then have to get the bottle ready after all.

Plus the 5am feed now goes something like: 20 mins attempting to latch, 15 mins feeding from a bottle and trying to burp / failing to burp and wiping sick off everything, 5 mins pumping to deflate boobs to edible level, half an hour / 40 mins ds2 on boob, 10 mins burping, 20 mins settling back to sleep, 15 mins pumping other boob, 10 mins wash up and sterilise, arse hits sofa, DS1 wakes up. So I'm basically getting about five hours in bed total, of very broken sleep, and that is WITH DH here to do the 1am feed. Once he heads off on Saturday I can probably expect a grand total of three hours in bed. Not asleep, just physically in my bed.

And it's four days until nursery

Hugs to you grumpla - I'm expressing as well when DS doesn't latch on easily, so I know it's a hassle. I keep seeing those peaceful dreamy pictures of mums and babies in the BF propaganda literature, and think, why don't they show an overtired woman with an angry baby, broken nipples and a pile of muslin clothes/breast pads/lansinoh in the background, just for a bit of a realism!

Mine's crap at latching on too, Ciske and Grumpla, but at nearly 5wks he's getting better. I get frustrated when it doesn't work though, and it makes everything worse (esp at night)

Grumpla that sounds really rough. I had badly cracked and bleeding nipples in the early weeks in spite of lashings of preventative lansinoh and a pretty good latch and spent way too much time expressing, it's exhausting and the last thing you need on top of everything else.

I'm relieved in a way to know everyone else seems to be having similar challenges with tantrums, Thursday last week took the cake for me, literally all day one or both boys were crying ALL day. It's awful but you do end up just having to leave one to cry while you sort out the other. Mine seem to like both sitting on my knee for stories or songs and sometimes actually manage to cheer each other up.

Is anyone else having issues with toddlers hitting out at the baby? DS1 has started this in the last couple of weeks. I dont think it's malicious, more to see what will happen - how DS2 will react or to get attention from us. We have tried taking away toys, naughty step, explaining why it's a bad thing to do, showing him how he should touch him (ie gently) and nothing seems to dissuade him, he just doesn't seem to understand that he shouldn't do it.

Thankfully he hasn't hurt DS2, I think DS2 is more curious/stunned than upset but I'm worried that one day I won't be quick enough and he will really hurt him. I don't want DS2 to feel as though he's not allowed near his brother or to show him affection so am reluctant to keep him completely away.

Thanks guys. I am feeding from the "good" boob now after 45 mins sleep!

It's good to hear it does get easier. I keep telling myself that if it's still this shit at 1mo I am "allowed" to give up, hoping that by that point I will have seen enough improvement to make it worth persevering.

Yes BFing round my way looks more like a Tracey Emun installation than anything else

Cheers people! Would like to point out that falling is not a family trait, as all I seem to have talked about is people having falls!

ciske fair dos for trying to reintroduce the afternoon nap; that ship sailed for us a long time ago! I have had to stand firm on telly though - it's on first thing in teh morning, lunch time, then before/after tea. Ds would have it on all day though, and I regularly have to combat: "WAnt Cbeebies mum!" As I'm typing, he now wants dinosaur pictures. WIsh I'd never shown him thebloody internet.

Grumpla, I had a massive shock feeding second tiem round. I thought it'd be easier, that my nipples were already hardened from first time round. DD had an incredibly painful latch to begin with, to the extent the midwife wondered if she had a tongue tie. Yet again, I ended up in tears at midnight crying: "I just can't do this!"

THen suddenly, she just got the idea. She still likes to have a good twist on teh nipple and tends to turn away whilst gripping the nipple. I reckon she'll be a biter too.

Our turn for soft play today. Dh is still off work ill, so it's good to escape cos he's wrecking my routine.

DD went to GPs at 9am, so my 'double shift' was only 3 hours long this morning... enough to find myself BFing DS2 while DD1 was sobbing on my knees because I wouldn't stop to fix her duplo building. :( But it was uphill from there, as afterwards she set up her toys to celebrate DS2's 'birthday' and we did songs and pretended to have cake.

The problem is, DD is absolutely fine while she is the main focus of attention and will even play nicely with her brother, but as soon as attentions shifts to DS, or something else, we get whinging, tears and tantrums.

Grumpla - I think you're right to set yourself a limit for BFing after which you say 'no more'. I had a horrible time with BFing DD and it really coloured how I look back on those early weeks. With DS, I'm taking it one week at a time and I've promised myself not to go down the route of despair again, with crying during the night feeds (me, not DS) and growing to resent my own body for not cooperating.

Loobylou - I've not had any hitting (yet) between DD and DS, but she is certainly testing what he can take and I'm very weary of leaving them alone for longer than 10-20 seconds. She was doing 'row row your boat' with him yesterday and teaching him the HotDog dance... she probably thinks he's like her cuddley toys and bends in all directions.

Can I join you all please? I have DS who is 2.7 and DD who is 4 months. I've somehow managed to muddle through the first few months but I'm getting more and more worn out. DD is still waking once in the night, which I know could be a lot worse, but I've got no sleep reserves left now and my eye bags are virtually black! DS has recently been potty trained and regularly screams out in the middle of the night 'I need a wee', so that's an extra thing to deal with. DH normally sorts him out but I'm woken too and I'm BF so have to do the night feeds every day.

DD is a good natured baby, a lot easier than DS was but I'm really struggling with the two of them together. Nobody warned me it would be this hard work. DS is at playgroup twice a week in the mornings but DD doesn't really sleep much in the mornings so there's no chance of a power nap for me. Everybody says to sleep when the baby sleeps, but when you tell them its your second and you can't do this, the suggestions seem to dry up.

DS has attacked another child at a toddler group this morning. He's never done this before and I'm mortifed. He's normally sensitive and caring. Then he had his worst tantrum ever on the bus on the way home. It must have lasted half an hour. Caused because he wanted to move seats and I wouldn't let him because the bus was moving. He's managed to get all the attention all day so far, and I'm now feeling guilty for not playing with DD. I hope he's not going to do this regularly. I've kind of gone off the idea of taking him out because I'm scared it's going to happen again.

Too early for wine chocolatemarzipan, but have a strong instead! You'd think after 9 months pregnancy and having to through labour, there would be a break somewhere, but no, it's straight on to sleepless nights and 24/7 childcare. There seems to be no time to recover until the magical moment where they start sleeping through...

To cheer everyone up, I'll share you all my lovely experience at the garden centre today. DD1 was in the soft play area, while DP was shopping and I had DS2 in the sling, while holding all the bags and coats under my arm. Back was starting to hurt, so went up to a teenager sat alone at a table with 3 empty chairs, asked if one was free. She said No, so I said No Problem, and left it.

15 minutes later an angry woman's face appears in front of mine, saying 'I hear you've been nasty to my daughter'. She then goes on a long rant of how I shouldn't pick on people younger than me and how horrible it all was for her daughter. I can't get a word in edgeways, she doesn't listen when I say 'let me explain this, I think your daugher misunderstood', and she finally stomps back to her daughter, who sits triumphantly at the table.

Now I was tired, trying to juggle DD1 who had a few falls and cried, carrying DS and keeping an eye on tons of stuff. I'm don't usually attract nastiness in people so the whole thing took me by surprise, and I am sorry to say, I left with tears in my eyes once DP arrived - did manage to throw a final filthy look at Angry Woman.

So, here's to Angry Mother and Stroppy Teenager in the garden centre: I could be angry at you, but your lack of social skills and generosity will probably mean you lead bitter, unpleasant lifes as it is, and I noticed God has already punished you with two horrendously sour faces. So pity on you.

In contrast, after speaking to Stroppy Teenager, a lovely man stood up and offered his own chair, so he was standing up with his family so I could sit down. May karma reward him as well. :)

Rant over, just had to get that off my chest.

Ciske you can borrow my toddler to throw at them if you want!

We went for a noce trip to the zoo today. THought we'd pram dd and buggy board ds, in case my back hurt with the sling.

Wrong idea!

Ds refused the buggy board today and wanted to walk. He especially wanted to walk to teh elephants. When we were nowhere fucking near and it would've taken ages. I actually think we could've put him on the fucking elephant's head and it still would've been wrong. Yes, we had a toddler meltdown at the zoo. "I want elephants!", "I want lunch!", "I want to go park!" I would have quite cheerfully slapped him all round the place.

Stopped for lunch, had some meltdown over the park etc, then suddenly, by the giant otters, he turned into pleasant toddler; obediently riding his buggy board, looking at everything we chose etc.

Unfortunately, by this time we were uttterly exhausted and decided to come home. Am now fending off request to look at dinosaurs on the internet. IS it o clock yet?

Sorry you had to deal with such fuckwittery ciske. Last thing you need.

Astronaut - as ever impressed by your balls. I never braced the zoo with DS alone, let alone with two, but clearly must grow some. May start with the city farm first..

Welcome chocolate - sorry that your oldest is struggling. That sounds stressful, but hopefully a short lived phase. of your single wake up- that feels a world away!

Sorry to hear about the reflux mistressploppy. Are you getting meds? Ranatidine really helped DS. Am beginning to suspect DD might be suffering. She's not yet doing the screaming during feeds that DS did, but I can hear her gagging, choking and squirming. Really hope not.

We've decamped to my parents for the weekend. Drive up last night was stressful as they tag teamed crying and waking each other up all the way. But DS is loving the attention and im loving being looked after and cooked for.

Hope others are having good weekends without meltdowns or stroppy teenagers.

suchan does this mean you get to drink tea all day while your parents feed the toddler biscuits and cake all weekend?

The zoo's not that brave - it's local and we're members, so we tend to just go for a couple of hours. I prefer to go with another adult (like dh!), so we get a child each. I think about all the times I've judged stroppy parents with crying children (sigh). "No we can't go and see the bloody elephants!", "I swear to GOd, I am going to swing for him in a minute!" , "Look, lions. You WILL enjoy looking at them", probably don't sound that caring in hindsight.

Did see an elephant, ahem, stroking another elephant's willy and lots of women who appeared to think they were going clubbing rather then traipsing round miles of concrete, so that made up for it.

Exactly Astronaut. You've described the current domestic scene exactly. DS has discovered by Dad's banjo and is now in seventh heaven. Suspect this will make the early bath/bedtime I'd envisaged tricky to achieve without tears. I'm liking your zoo's mix of giant otters, animal porn and inappropriately dressed women.

Zoo on doorstep actually sounds quite nice, Astronaut, provided toddlers are well behaved and multiple adults are available to pry them off places they shouldn't be going. My only regret in moving house is that we no longer live next to a huge park with endless numbers of animals.

After the dramatic trip to the garden centre this morning, we went to PIL this afternoon, so we were also cooked for and they made brave attempts to entertain DD1. Unfortunately, she's been fighting off a cold for a few days now and is extremely clingy, possessive ('it's miiiiiiine') and teary ('carry meeeee'). I've chickened out on controlling the tantrums as firmly as I want to do, and am now going for tantrum avoidance techniques. We'll go back to parenting when she's well.

MIL was lovely and told me she really struggled with two children initially and knew exactly what it was like for me.

Ciske how mean of that woman, what a nasty piece of work. I always think what goes around comes around, she'll be paid back for that one day. I feel for you with a clingy toddler, I'm wondering if mine is coming down with something too, all we've heard from him all day is "pick 'my' up mummy/daddy" in the whiniest voice ever.

suchan the single waking isn't as good as it sounds. She doesn't go back to sleep after feeding and wants to play for 2 hours.... Not good when I don't want DS to be woken so can't leave her chattering away for a bit.

Hi everyone, we also have a super clingy grumpy toddler, also putting it down to illness. The world seems to end at least three times a day at the moment. Funnily enough the worst meltdowns are brought on by looking at him the 'wrong' way...and the 'wrong' way is usually when one of us smiles at him. Poor little guy.

Sounds as though some of you have had a very eventful start to the weekend. Mine hasn't been too bad with the exception of multiple night feeds last night and then DS2 not really sleeping all day. No idea how he kept his eyes open but he wasn't too grumpy which I was thankful for. He has taken to yelling when he's hungry though if in his opinion I'm not quick enough to feed him which I find oddly amusing given he's such a happy chilled out baby!

Not really looking forward to this week, we are moving house in just over a week's time so we need to start packing. Not going to be fun with the two little ones but we do have some great help on he day and the new place has a fantastic garden and lots more living space which I'm very excited about :)

I am not leaving the house this week.

We took kids to teh park this morning (after the obligatory fight for who-the-best-parent-is on the way out). Disaster.

Dh let ds go on the big climby slide thing, you know, the one for 8 year olds. All fine - apart from the fact that ds couldn't slide because his boots kept sticking, so he inched down. Furthermore, there is no way in hell ds can get up himself, so dh had to help him climb up, then stop him diving off the open bits, then lift him on the slide. He should've just let him whinge, because then we were faced with the sight of a toddler (who now knows what it's like to go on th e big slide) having a meltdown at the bottom of the climby thing. Bloody toddlers. Bloody dh!

I have discovered that my tolerance for tantrums is very, very low. I appear to be my dad. Dh drove ds home and I walked cos I was so annoyed!

We are watching TOm and Jerry films this afternoon because I want some peace!

Incidentally, anyone else's toddler started waking in the night? Ds pretty much wakes every night from between 10 and 4 and rattles his door handle. He goes back to bed easily enough; we don't communicate with him, it just keeps happening.