Toddler and newborn...How??? Support thread?

[Suchanamateur]

I am in the very early days of having a newborn (9 days old) and an almost 2 yr old DS and am seriously struggling at the thought of DH going back to work in the next few days - for a number of reasons. I had a taste of it yesterday when DH had to go into the office, unexpectedly, for much of the day.

DS is an absolute joy and I totally loved the few weeks of maternity leave pre DD when we just hung out all week. But now he is in total Mummy rejection mode and terribly teary. Utterly understandable but quite upsetting.

DD is a sweet little froggy newborn, doing froggy newborn things - eating, sometimes sleeping - and mostly at inconvenient times. I had a really awful time in the early months of my DS and the scars run deep (plus PND) - so every time I can get her to nap, I can feel huge waves of anxiety washing over me. I know they are different children, but I can't help project into a future where she doesn't sleep, night or day, and wonder how I will manage - I used to walk DS in a sling for hours and hours outside but that isn't an option with two of them. It was only at around 6 months when we did some sleep training that thing started to even out a bit with DS, and then got wonderful and I understood how you might actually enjoy being a mother. Six months seems an age away!

DD is currently cluster feeding without stop from about 5/6 until 10 ish. I can just about handle the clustering later in the evening, but I've got no idea how I handle DS dinner, bath and bed with a baby clamped to me and DS saying 'Mummy no' at everything..

I know pretty much the answer to all this is grit teeth, ride it through and this too shall pass. But wondering if anyone in a similar situation wanted to join in to help it pass? Or provide wise words and comfort from somewhere out the other side?

Hello. I have not read all the replies, but I was in this situation not long ago. I bathed them together and did bedtimes - stories and lullabies, together from when DC2 was about 4 months and DC1 was then about 19 months, the focus was to keep the elder child's routine as much as possible while also fitting the younger child into it, if that makes sense. They shared a room and I would go in for night time feeds with the younger child, until those stopped. It was tough for a while, but you do muddle through. I think as long as they sleep when they need to and are fed when they need it, that any small things you do with your DS you still get a chance to do, either with the baby strapped to your front or beside you in a bouncy chair, they will become inevitably accustomed to each other and in time, pals. And just take one day at a time. It is anxiety inducing to focus too far ahead and try to plan too much when things can be unpredictable. They both sound like sweet children.

Hey mrsrvc hope all is well for your DD. Try not to worry too much, easier said than done I know.

Sitting here trying to coax a burp out of a windy DS2 after a fucking awful challenging day. At one point DS1 and I engaged in a forty minute battle of wills over going upstairs. I ended up carrying, which was the last straw for my already creaking back, then bellowed at him until he cried.

Not only that, but after this idyllic parenting moment my mother asked me whether I thought there was something seriously wrong with DS1 for him to ne this stubborn, and should I take him to the doctor.

I told her I didn't think they had invented a cure for being two and a half yet.

Apparently I was such a genius toddler that my parents only had to explain things to me once or twice before I grasped the concept. I never threw tantrums that lasted more than a few minutes

Honestly I love my mum and I wouldn't have been able to cope the last few months without her, but sometimes she hits on exactly the WRONG thing to say.

At least I know from this thread that I am not the only mean shouty mummy

grumpla :o at your response to your mum. Am sure she has a nice selective memory re your obedience but not helpful to say this if not. I try to remember that tomorrow is another day and it is likely/possible that it will be better than today.

mrssippee was going to suggest one on one time with your dd but see that you're already doing this or have got more time arranged. Sorry on phone so can't go back and check but is your dd1 in nursery? If so then do they have any suggestions on how to deal with it? Sorry not sure that is very helpful but deep breaths and plenty of . Almost everything is 'just a phase' so hopefully things will pick up soon. Sorry scraping the bottom of the barrel for platitudes.

We actually had quite a successful day. Only one incidence of shouting and physical wrestling as I tried to get his fucking trousers on. Plenty of other behaviour that was less than desirable (him not me for a change :o) but somehow I coped with it better I think because I've had a little more sleep.

Grumpla, i know my mil is exactly the same, her son never did a thing wrong.
He was the most advanced child on the planet!!

They get muddled, i wrote all milestones down with numer one. less than two years later i would remember stuff that when i checked was way out. time gives you rose tinted glasses.

It also makes you forget the horror of two under two, you just need to get through that first 10 months. :-)

With regards to short tempers, it's also a normal side effect of sleep deprivation. I go mad at the slightest thing after a bad night sleep.

Which doesn't promise much for today, as DS decided to feed hourly last night so I'm sitting here in a daze, trying desperately to wake up a little with a strong coffee.

Ciske I totally feel your sleep deprived pain, I think the thing I'm finding hardest is that it's been months (almost five) and I expected it to be much better - maybe one night waking but definitely not four!

I agree everything does seem much worse when you're exhausted and my fuse is so much shorter so it does make sense that I would get angry when things with the DCs are not going to plan.

Had some chocolate and read a magazine with a cup of hot chocolate last night before bed (DH was out with his mates) and in spite of such an awful day and lots of overnight feeds I feel a lot calmer today. I wonder if the tears after falling over acted as a bit of a stress release.

I've already had a tearful moment this morning - in spite of my mainly toddler-free day yesterday.

Dd woke at midnight but didn't settle til 1. She was up again at 5, which isn't too bad, but then ds was up at 6- and full on. It just feels like I'm on a treadmill; no sooner have you managed to get them bedded, than it's time to do it all again.

And of course ,it's now the weekend, so my fragile routine is blown out of the water by dh, so I get cross and we inevitably argue.

Aimimg to do some gardening today, always an excellent opportunity to row.

I'm really not sure what to do about little one's sleep. She has a co-sleeper cot attached to the bed and was waking about 11, 1 , 4, 6 ish (then big sister got up) and I was hoping this would just gradually get better BUT she is no longer happily going back into her "side" after a feed.

The last few nights I've been properly co-sleeping with her half attached to my breast. It is easier to feed as she just sort of snorts and goes on and I don't fully awake properly BUT its at least every hour. It must be every time she stirs in her sleep. I ended up down this road with no 1 and I really really don't want to still be doing this at 10months with no 2 but no idea how to settle her without boob.

Husband home last night (yay) so I got a lie in of a couple of hours while he took the children (bliss) but now he's off playing with his bike and its back to managing 2 kids which I'm really not doing well. I really hoped I'd have this under better control by nearly 4 months :(

My mum totally redeemed herself by taking baby and toddler off round the garden for HOURS this morning whilst I slept, expressed from rock-solid boobs (trying to give up now but boobs have other plans) washed, got laundry done etc etc. Feel way more on top of things now and DH here the next two nights as well.

I just wish I could do nice things with both of them but DS1 just gets so cross with me... Perhaps one day all this will be forgotten and I will tell my sons that THEY were no trouble as toddlers! I hope so, at the moment everything feels pretty joyless.

Grumpla, apparently the cabbage leaf thing helps reduce supply as well as engorgement - worth a try? Glad you had a morning off, sounds like you needed it

Grumple, I totally get the cross toddler thing. Everything I do with ds ends in tears at some point - mainly because he's tired and won't sleep.

I made sure I dedicated today to him though, and apart from feeling I've neglected dd, I feel happy that we had some pfb time. Also helps that I've been in the garden tidying pots and planting and stuff since 10am this morning and am now clean and cider drinking. In fact, apart from the cider drinking, I appear to have turned into my mother today. {horrified emoticon}

Grumpla you've summed up how I feel atm - joyless. I have a two year old and a 4 week old and spent the day struggling to get out the house. Somebody always needs feeding or changing, when does it get better? At this point Im thinking I'll stick them both in the buggy, screaming or not and see if a change of scene improves things.

Marking my place with some trepidation having read some (not all) the posts! DD is about 18 and a half months old and DC2 is due in August.

Hey mrsrvc, just wanted to add my DS2 to the sacral dimple club. His was picked up the day after he was born. Really frightened me as we had to take him straight back to hospital to be seen by a paediatrician but they decided it was nothing to worry about, as they could see the bottom of it. I distinctly remember wailing to my big sis "my baby's got two arseholes!".

Hope your DD is ok. Given that you say you can see the base, I'm sure she's fine but it's best to get these things checked out.

Logging in for the midnight shift.... DS2 again not settling and I was getting very frustrated, so took him and myself out of bed. At least we can be in a place that's less cramped and hot, and where the cat doesn't jump on my head every hour. :(

Fuchzia - I found that if you wait until both toddler and newborn are settled before you do anything, you'll never get anywhere. My advice is throw the lot of them in prams and go out, the change of scenery might just appease them and if not, at least you got yourself out.

With regards to jealous toddlers, DD seems to get better and starting to embrace DS2 as a part of her family. Little things that help are:

1. involve her in DS2's activities, like bathing, changing nappies, chosing his clothes etc.
2. no pressure - like a poster said above, don't force them into saying they love the baby, just let them approach their sibling in their own time. I stopped GPs from trying to force DD into 'cute' pictures with her brother as it was making her more and more agitated. Instead, I let her come to DS when she felt like it and have a good look and touch of this weird little creature.
3. allow her to involve DS in her little role plays - he goes on the playmat to join her teddy bear picnics and yesterday, he was in his bouncy chair as part of her imaginary bus.
4. play down any drama's and tantrums - this was a big issue for me as people would give DD lots of 'poor you' feedback and extensive comforting when she was jealous. This is well meant but just reinforces the whole idea that it's horrible having to share mummy/daddy. She has to learn to accept that's she is no longer the only child, so we encourage her to continue her own play rather than sob hysterically when DS needs a feed.

DD still tries to push DS away every so often or comments that he's 'boring' (and in all fairness, he probably is to a toddler), but we're getting somewhere and she now regularly lists all the things DS and her will do when he is 'big'.

DS asleep on lap now - dare I put him in his moses basket? [hmmm]

Did he settle, Ciske?

Cabbage'd up and full of sage tea. Debating whether to attempt a return to bed... Hope that's where you are Ciske and all of the rest of you!

Had a right old moan at DH last night, nothing really resolved but do feel a bit better having had some sleep as well.

At one point I may have wailed "I just feel like I have no life any more!"

Late comer to this thread! I have a 21 mo ds & 3 week old ds. Newborn has hardly slept a wink & we've lost an hour too! Starting ti struggle with the lack of sleep & the demands of a toddler who is v v active!

Momentary joy that we'd all slept 'in' till 7. Until I realised clocks had changed. Yet another night of hourly wakings. Clearly not a growth spurt as has been going on over 2 weeks. Can't take much more

Sorry you had a bad night, Suchan . Do you feed at each wake-up? I was so pissed off with mine for cluster feeding all fucking evening and then waking after 2hrs of being in bed that I refused to feed him but I found bending his legs right up (effectively folding him in half) calmed him right down and he went back to sleep for another 3hrs

I do sometimes although she's not always hungry. I think (although cant quite remember) I restocked without feeding at least once. The problem with feeding is that it makes her windy and sick. Will try your in half trick.

Crappy night here. Dd really unsettled and I've got the vomit bug. Joys..
We were meant to be going to the outlaws today, which I was actually looking forward to, but I'm going no further than the loo...
Suchan, do you think your dd could have reflux?

do you co-sleep suchan I found when we did DS wasn't windy, but of in his basket then we had to have a upright be sick session afterwards. I think it's because you got there before they were fully awake. Now he is mostly in his basket and is mostly fine after feeds.

ploppy, grumpla - DS settled in bed eventually and I had a few hours sleep, also thanks to DP who cuddled up with him for the last part of the night.

I never heard of the folding in two trick, is it meant to relax their tummy and get air out?

mrsrvc - hope you feel better soon!

Morning everyone. Tried giving DS2 a bottle of formula yesterday afternoon but he just smiled at me and chewed the teat. DSil was here later in the afternoon and managed to get him to take 45ml which isn't much in the scheme of things but it's a start.

The knee I fell on and grazed while running for the bus on Friday seems to be infected, it's been really sore and today has a big red ring all around it. Savlon doesn't seem to have done anything so am testing out the healing power of Sudocreme. DH was making fun of me for being a wimp about it yesterday (he was very sympathetic when I did it though) but has changed his mind on seeing it today and is most concerned.

Grumpla I remember feeling like I had no life for a good while (and I still sort of don't but it's better than before!). In the first couple of months it helped just to get up and leave the house (when DH was there of course) for an hour or so just after a feed, go for a walk or to the shops to browse or for coffee. Now DS2 is a bit more predictable in the early evening anyway I can have a quick drink at a nearby pub or quick dinner with friends which reminds me there is life outside the house. We sometimes go out to early family dinner at a local restaurant too.