Toddler and newborn...How??? Support thread?

[Suchanamateur]

I am in the very early days of having a newborn (9 days old) and an almost 2 yr old DS and am seriously struggling at the thought of DH going back to work in the next few days - for a number of reasons. I had a taste of it yesterday when DH had to go into the office, unexpectedly, for much of the day.

DS is an absolute joy and I totally loved the few weeks of maternity leave pre DD when we just hung out all week. But now he is in total Mummy rejection mode and terribly teary. Utterly understandable but quite upsetting.

DD is a sweet little froggy newborn, doing froggy newborn things - eating, sometimes sleeping - and mostly at inconvenient times. I had a really awful time in the early months of my DS and the scars run deep (plus PND) - so every time I can get her to nap, I can feel huge waves of anxiety washing over me. I know they are different children, but I can't help project into a future where she doesn't sleep, night or day, and wonder how I will manage - I used to walk DS in a sling for hours and hours outside but that isn't an option with two of them. It was only at around 6 months when we did some sleep training that thing started to even out a bit with DS, and then got wonderful and I understood how you might actually enjoy being a mother. Six months seems an age away!

DD is currently cluster feeding without stop from about 5/6 until 10 ish. I can just about handle the clustering later in the evening, but I've got no idea how I handle DS dinner, bath and bed with a baby clamped to me and DS saying 'Mummy no' at everything..

I know pretty much the answer to all this is grit teeth, ride it through and this too shall pass. But wondering if anyone in a similar situation wanted to join in to help it pass? Or provide wise words and comfort from somewhere out the other side?

i found using a sling all day a godsend.

i never bought a pram or stroller for DD1 and got used to napping her and cooking, doing chores etc and going into central london. most days we'd carry her for hours.

with second (now 7 months) i carry her for naps, settle her by feeding in the sling or ergo and get them to bed by all bathing together (logistically just about possible) and getting dd1 to sit on bed (co sleep with dd2) quietly while i get dd2 fed to sleep. and then i put her to bed or more usually dh does.

she's not a tv fan so we do a lot of reading, making fimo, drawing, dollshouse stuff ontop of the swimming, going to museum, pick up from the few days at preschool she does.

i laughingly call dd2 'corner baby' as she can sit and play with toys in the corner but she spends up to 5-6 hours a day clamped to my boob in a sling so she's not exactly neglected.

dd2 (now over three) can suck up any attention going, and then some.

good luck, it isn't easy and i'd love a break but any time i have i feel i have to spend one on one with eldest. 'me time' will come in a few years i guess.

Oh I am so relieved to have found this thread! I need some advice from others. I too am struggling with the toddler-newborn scenario. DD1 was 19 months when DD2 was born 7 weeks ago. I could not have envisaged the transformation the birth of a newborn would bring about in DD1. I am a SAHM and DD1 never went to nursery so she was used to having me around 24/7. She was an angelic child, slept through the night from 8 weeks, ate easily, hardly cried, never threw tantrums and was charmingly sociable. This all changed the moment she saw a rival sibling on the scene, despite the fact that I had done all I could to get her prepared for the new arrival while I was pregnant.

Juggling the two babies is incredibly hard work, but I think I'm coping, using the strategies mentioned above (lots of cbeebies, double buggy etc) though I don't quite have a routine. But what is really upsetting me is the violent nature of DD1! She used to be such a playful, friendly child, never showed anger, never hit anyone went around hugging total strangers. But she has physically attacked her little sister from day one. At first I thought she was showing affection but just going a little strong, but that is definitely not the case. There is a terrifying look of venom on her face when she attacks her sister, she slaps her, hits her has stabbed a pen into her head (not seriously enough to warrant a visit to A&E thankfully), tries to smother her and generally exhibits hateful behaviour towards her. I didn't think it was possible for a child to have such strong feelings let alone to transform over night from an angel to someone so scary that her sister, at only 6 weeks of age, is actually frightened of her! I have read through a lot of this thread but not all of it and can find no other similar experience. If there is anyone out there who has experienced the same I would be so grateful for any advice. I am seriously considering taking her to a child psychologist. Am I worrying about something that is "normal" or is this a rivalry gone too far? I should add for the sake of balance that there are times (increasing in number now) where DD1 seems genuinely caring towards DD2 in stroking her, saying "hello baby" in a big sisterly way, asking to hold her (though this is nearly always followed by a quick pushing her away after a few seconds). However, she is showing her aggression to other children now and she spent all of today practically bullying her cousin by pushing him and hitting him (he is 6 months older than her) and reducing him to tears on more than one occasion when previously they got on like a house on fire. I really hope she isn't going to be a psychologist's dream candidate. Please help.

Greetings all

Still struggling with BFing here, had pretty much given up and was just expressing a couple of times a day whilst trying to cope with the idea of stopping, then ds2 randomly decided to latch on just fine after days of not being able to get him on the boob at all. But I am still sore and now debating whether to try and build my supply back up or just let it tail off completely. Dh away three or four days in the next week so that might make the decision for me.

Meanwhile ds1 appears to have gone on hunger strike, both here and at nursery. He's always been picky but this is just getting daft now.

I know this too will pass but I wish I could just go to sleep and wake up in three months time!

Mrs sippee poor you, i corrected every negative immediately, consistantly. super nanny style, bad behavious results in going home. We talk about behaviour a lot. Dc1 is lovely. dc2 is my violent child, i let too much slide with that one :-( correcting a lot now. Was too easy to give in, i was weaker.

I did allow a lot of contact from dc1 from the start, much to the horror of GP's. I never reacted to slightly rough handling. I read that the child needs to feel involved. As always any over reaction from parents or carers is sheer delight to a toddler. Infact i remember telling pil to shut up when one of them started shouting at a bit of arm pulling. Dc1 was testing the reaction. Babys are tough.
Although inever left them alone.

Subbing whilst rocking in the corner in anticipation of the end of the world as I know it

DD is 2.8. DD2 is due in just over 4 weeks.

Hi just joining in. I have 23 month old and a 4 month old.

My mum was living with me for the first two months after baby was born. If you can get help, please do.

Now I am totally on my own and my husband works 6 days a week and is never home at night before 8 or 9pm.

Bath time is the worst. I have to feed baby on floor of bathroom while toddler splashes about. Baby basically fusses the whole time. But I have just realised that one of them is just left to cry/tantrum at one point each day. I can only do so much.

Double buggy is fantastic! Highly recommend the mountain buggy duet.

I am also potty training. I hate it and toddler always needs a wipe when I am breastfeeding! Still in pull ups when out for more than 20 minutes, because I do not have the energy for mistakes.

Getting out of the house is a must. I hate some of the playgroups, but at the same time its very nice to just leave toddler to run around and get tired.

I am 4 months in and toddler has only just stopped being jealous and angry at me. It just seems to get easier each day so hang in there everyone.

Poor you (All) ! Been there. DS1 was 21 months when DS2 arrived. ( almost 7 years ago now) Yes bedtimes and feed times were tricky. Impossible at times. But somehow they did eat and sleep, ( even if I didn;t) . My BEST bit of advice for you is NOT to get cross with your older child if he does something to upset what you are doing with the baby. Lke pesters you when yo are feedinf etc. I made the mistake of being so obsessed with DS2 getting some naps ( so I could get some rest) that I used to get angry with DS1 if he woke DS2 up. Summer baby asleep in the pram in the garden. DS1 used to go and look at him and poke him and wake him up. I would roar at DS1.
I feel my attitude to DS1 at the time has contributed to the intense sibling rivalry/fighting/taunting I am now experiencing. Ds2 adores DS1. Ds1 hates DS2. It's horrid. Make sure your DS isn't put out by the presence of your DD. Babies wil learn very quickly that you will attend to them in due course. ( Of course you have to find the right balance otherwise your DD will think you prefer DS - it's a minefield!) Good luck!!

There is light at the end of the tunnel. DD is nearly 10 months and it is so much more fun than it used to be. DS and DD love each other. I work two days a week which means time just flies by. Now it is sunny and life is even easier.

I used to cry lots and still do some days. But its definitely much brighter.

Well last night was officially the worst night's sleep probably since DS2 was born, i.e pretty much none at all :( I had planned to stop bf at around 6mo (he is almost 5mo) but as the nights are getting progressively worse no matter what I do I think I will start the switch to combination feeding tomorrow. I'm hopeful that by doing this he'll start taking more milk during the day and be more settled at night. They are both such lovely boys but it's so hard to enjoy them when I'm so tired. I don't want to spend the rest of my maternity leave in a constant state of exhaustion :(

Wooohoo, thread of the day! Welcome to all the new people. :)

Suchan - I go for convenience when I take the children out and bring a bottle of formula for DS. No time to express during the day, and I can't see myself BF in public while trying to contain a toddler and watch all the bags/pram/food... One thing will have to go, and seeing that both the toddler and the credit cards are of certain value to me, I've chosen to give up my place in the EBF Hall of Fame and do mixed feeding.

hello can I join you please?

dd1 is 2.1 and dd2 is 4 months. it's incredibly reassuring to know I'm not alone in finding this soooo difficult. Both girls are great individually but I find having the two together incredibly hard. Also didn't help that DP wasn't that supportive until recently - he'd get in from work and give me this look and ask what I'd been doing all day! But we've had a bit of a breakthrough and he's getting much better.

Looby grumpla unmumsnetty hugs. I would like just to sleep and wake up in six months (but given DD sleeping only an hour a time, that's pretty unlikely).

And hello everyone! MrsSipee - cant remember who (brain like sieve) but there were definitely a couple of posters unthread dealing with first born violent behaviours. Worth a scroll.

Pub last night was good, even though I did feel like an irresponsible mother with baby feeding and glass (small..) of wine in hand. But good to be out and feel a but normal. Probably it for another 6 months.

Think I too am going to relinquish place in EBF hall of fame. Hated expressing first time and really don't need to make this any harder on myself. When DS was in more if a pattern, DH used to do 10pm ish feed which gave a few precious hrs more sleep- would like to do again if DD allows.

Morning all.

Am in the enviable position this mornign of only having one dc (the smaller one) while the toddler wakes up in his grandparents' house. It measn that I have only just had breakfast and am sitting on my arse, looking at stuff to do. Going to the comedy night was great ( apart from a bloke called Mark J Dolan. He was shit. Don't watch out for him.), but getting in at 12 has taken its toll. At least dd only kicked off a couple of times for dsis, so I think we're safe to leave her with a non family member now.

My advice to those whose OHs look askance at the mess, is to remind them that you're on Maternity leave, not housewife leave, and that whilst a childminder would not do vast amounts of housework, neither will you.

suchan, I tend to express while I'm feeding dd. Been a bit lax for a while, but forhcoming events have sent me into an expressing frenzy lately - using that 4 o clock knocking off time well.

Louby, hopefully it's just settling in to a new house and they'll calm down again.

Love how so many people have joined the thread. I have visions of hundreds of dishevelled, desperate mums metaphorically strapping on their battle gear each day to engaged with the dcs.

suchan - I do will be going nowhere near anything resembling a breast pump this time. Yuck, yuck, yuck. I hated it so much last time I'd cry doing it (but did it a lot as hated bf in public more). I gave up bf at 6 weeks! This time bm from boob and whenever that ends formula from bottle.

DD1 really challenging at the moment. To whoever was talking about their picky eater going on hunger strike same here. She weeps and holds out her arms to me whenever she sees me feeding dd2 and demands that 'baby go back in seat'. Have sent her to nursery today . Looking at her during some of her tantrums yesterday also makes the girl from the exorcist come to mind .

pom, I've lost track of when ds will and won't eat now. It tends to be tea time when it all really kicks off because everything is "too hot" or he suddenly "no like that, NO LIKE IT!!!!"

He had a whole week of barely eating anthing, but t turned out he was coming down with a stomach bug. At the moment he's hungry a lot during the day, so I'm assuming he's going through a growth spurt.

Still having battles over his shreddies though. HE loves them, but will suddenly turn against them and get hysterical if they're not completely soggy. (SIgh)

I think a lot of it comes down to control, they have so little control over anything, they get it where they can.

I hear you with the tantrums. It doesn't help that I get the red mist when he gets one and have to walk away. Think ds and I have quite similar personalities. On the plus side, my friend's toddler was pushing mine over the other day, something ds just never does, so there's always someone behaving worse!

MrsSippee, although I've got a DS (3 and a bit) and a DD (6mo), your post could've been written by me! DS has never stabbed DD with a pen but he did kick her so hard the other day that she actually left the floor. This was my series of faces: There have been countless other similar incidents of head-butting and hitting as well.

I have tried really really hard to let a bit of roughness go and have encouraged any positive physical interaction but it seems as though this has all been for nowt as the only time he goes near her now is to drag her or push her. And like your DD2, mine is now afraid of DS.

There have been a few occasions where I have had to literally sit on my hands in order to avoid slapping DS as a horrible part of me really wants him to know how it feels to be physically intimidated by someone. And that makes me feel like the worst mother in the world, my only consolation is that I haven't done it but I am terrified that one day I will.

We spoke to nursery about it the other day as DS got much worse recently and they said that they've noticed it too. DS's nursery class is very boy heavy and terrifyingly macho and they're all very physical with each other; he let himself get pushed around a lot when he first started in September but now is standing up for himself a bit more and obviously that's leaked over into home.

DH and I are totally consistent and so is nursery but I am just feeling completely helpless. So, MrsSippee, really I can't give you any advice, just empathy and a virtual and

YY to Grumpla and absurd pickiness from DC1. What a massive PITA that is. I have recently just stopped pandering to it and if DS doesn't eat what's in front of him then no pud and no other options. We are trying to eat as a family more often at 5.30-ish which is tricky to organise but I'm hoping will pay off eventually.

And Pomme, yes to exorcist tantrums; we have those too. DH and I snigger behind our hands at DS and whisper things about sucking cocks in hell when he's screaming too loud to hear

Oops, I seem to have written an essay. Sorry for banging on

DD6, DS is 1.7 and DD is 3months. I have forgotten DD2 in her bouncy chair for 40 minutes while feeding others lunch. Forgot i had her and had left her in a room with a large cat.

DH just called to say that he went into the supermarket and had forgotten DS in the car as 'he was quiet'. These are the good days.

Ooh can I join to? DS1 is 2.1 and ds2 is 8 weeks.

DH has been away the last 3 nights and bed times have been fraught to say the least! Ds2 wants to cluster feed all evening from about 6pm which means ds1 has been running riot and been going to bed later, which makes him more tired the next day, and much harder work. Ds2 sadly has been left to grizzle/cry during DS1s bath and story time (have tried him in a sling but that didn't work - he's fine in it any other time of the day...) and I've been eating toast or a piece of fruit for tea as no time to cook.
If DH comes home tonight and asks what's for tea...I'll think I'll kick him straight back out the door again!

Def found that getting out n about, even if it's only for 30 mins helps enormously.

DH away next week but I'm off to my mums

My sympathies go out to all of you - I have a 21 month gap between my boys, now 3.5 and 18 months old.
The first year was bloody hard - no way around it. My first was also a pretty mellow chap, but took to hitting, pushing, and even biting the baby. I tried the softly-softly approach but then felt like I wasn't doing a good enough job of protecting the baby from being properly hurt.
I then tried raising my voice, zero-tolerance, naughty step, etc, for a while but frankly, I think DS1 was too young to really put the punishment and the behaviour together. I actually regret being so heavy with him in the early days. But then again, if I'd carried on being gentle about it, and ignoring it, the baby probably would have ended up black and blue.
So in other words I don't have any suggestions! Mrs Sippee, i'd suggest carving out some one-on-one time if at all possible with your DD1, something fun each week, a ritual of sorts - swimming pool or cafe or soft play - just the 2 of you - this seemed to help a bit with my DS1. and there's no shame at all in consulting a child psychologist - they're full of good ideas, and doesn't mean you've failed in any way - just need some outside help.
Good luck everyone - it does get easier!

OMG what have I done!!! (8 weeks pregnant with a DD who will be 2.4 when DC2 born).

Going to hide somewhere.

Just wait, Hellobear, you've got the next 7 months of guilt to get through first.

Guilt because you're too tired/sick to play with dc1.

Guilt because you have to turf dc out of their room/cot etc.

Guilt because you aren't concentrating enough on dc2.

Guilt because you send dc1 away while you give birth to dc2.

Guilt because you've ruined dc1's life.

Guilt because you don't spend enough time with dc2.

I don't think I qualify for this threas as DS1 is 4 now and DS2 is 13 weeks but I salute you all!!! I have found it bloody difficult so far and that's with the bigger age gap. I think the main thing I was unprepared for was the guilt I would feel simply for DS1 not being an only child any more. I miss our time with just eachother and although he still gets plenty of one on one time with both me and dh there is always a crying baby in the back ground or bottles that need sterilising, a nappy to change etc. It is just sooo much harder than I hoped it would be. That said DS1 adores his baby brother and has coped fantastically well. I think it's me who has struggled rather than him!

Round 1 to DS1 bugger all lunch eaten it was gen pizza ffs which he normally hoovers up. Round 2 to me he is asleep (i hope - it is quiet anyway) in his bed !!! He doesn't normally nap in his bed andwas ultra resistant as its much earlier than he is used to at home but at nursery he naps at 1.30 ish and he eat there... I used the rapid return method and on fourth time he stayed in bed. Am hoping that he'll have a bit of a sleep then we can go to the park when he wakes up and work up an appetite for tea...

astronaut the shreddies - am totally with you. DS1 is currently only eating dry weetabix and the mess is something else.

Bit of a mixed day for me so far. Was running for the bus with DS2 in the p+t and tripped and fell on my knees, ripping my jeans and pulling the pushchair over backwards. And the bloody driver didn't even wait for me!

Probably just as well because once I got over the initial shock of realising DS2 was fine but it could have been very bad, and that I'd ruined my (expensive, pre-baby budget) jeans and had bloody knees I called DH and burst into tears.

Feeling better now though, new landlord has agreed to buy us a new extra large fridge and I'm sitting in Caffe Nero enjoying my free (much needed) latte courtesy of O2 Rewards.

we are having violence issues too and I am also struggling with getting angry when DS1 has one of his tantrums. I feel so relieved that others find themselves reacting in the same way, feel so guilty for losing it with a two year old when I'm supposed to be the responsible adult.