Toddler and newborn...How??? Support thread?

[Suchanamateur]

I am in the very early days of having a newborn (9 days old) and an almost 2 yr old DS and am seriously struggling at the thought of DH going back to work in the next few days - for a number of reasons. I had a taste of it yesterday when DH had to go into the office, unexpectedly, for much of the day.

DS is an absolute joy and I totally loved the few weeks of maternity leave pre DD when we just hung out all week. But now he is in total Mummy rejection mode and terribly teary. Utterly understandable but quite upsetting.

DD is a sweet little froggy newborn, doing froggy newborn things - eating, sometimes sleeping - and mostly at inconvenient times. I had a really awful time in the early months of my DS and the scars run deep (plus PND) - so every time I can get her to nap, I can feel huge waves of anxiety washing over me. I know they are different children, but I can't help project into a future where she doesn't sleep, night or day, and wonder how I will manage - I used to walk DS in a sling for hours and hours outside but that isn't an option with two of them. It was only at around 6 months when we did some sleep training that thing started to even out a bit with DS, and then got wonderful and I understood how you might actually enjoy being a mother. Six months seems an age away!

DD is currently cluster feeding without stop from about 5/6 until 10 ish. I can just about handle the clustering later in the evening, but I've got no idea how I handle DS dinner, bath and bed with a baby clamped to me and DS saying 'Mummy no' at everything..

I know pretty much the answer to all this is grit teeth, ride it through and this too shall pass. But wondering if anyone in a similar situation wanted to join in to help it pass? Or provide wise words and comfort from somewhere out the other side?

See I think I have quite 'easy' children most of the time but I'm still wishing the weeks away - I hate the little baby stage. I spend all my time worrying that whatever I'm doing is setting me up for problems in the future. I wish the bloody phrase 'rod for your own back' had never been invented as it's all I can think about.

And I don't actually believe that what you do affects them much. Penguin, DS will nap independently when he's good and ready, don't beat yourself up

All I know is that I wasted a ridiculous amount of ds's babyhood trying to get him to go for naps. He was tired, but would fight me all the way and cry and cry and cry. At 2.6, he only naps in the car or if he's ill, and has been like this for a long time (those last weeks of pregnancy weren't fun!). THerefore, I'm quite relaxed about dd napping.

I also don't expect to have a proper night's sleep for at least a year,so that helps with not getting too stressed about 'making' dd sleep through.

My biggest concern at teh moment is what to do with dd if I want to go and do soem planting in the garden with ds, and how the hell to get her to start taking a bottle again. SHe did really well about a month ago (I was on an all dayer; she had no choice!), but every Tuesday I (try) to go to pilates and dread coming home, because I get a screaming baby thrust at me, "She wouldn't take a bottle." SHe, of course, immediately feeds from me.

It's not going to stop me going out, but it does make me feel horribly guilty at the thought of her crying all night. Even started trying a dummy, but I think it's too late.

Well I pulled myself together and went out this morning to a music class, which was fine and Dd slept for over 2 hrs (in a sling of course). Whoever said up thread that you should divvy the day up into blocks of manageable time was absolutely right. So now just have to deal with now till bathtime when DH comes home.

I thought I'd be so much more BTDT this time round but it turns out my expectations were just as unrealistic. I'm just more haunted by rods and backs this time. Arse. I also realise now that bar the sleep stuff, DS was quite easy- barely cried and quite laid back (still is really). So am a bit shocked at my new 0 to 60 in a few seconds arrival, especially because dealing with DS inevitably means I don't reach her till she is at full throttle. Think I need to let go of the baby I ordered and make peace with the one I've got.

People keep telling me that the 0-60 thing is 'a girl thing'. I think both of mine are easy/difficult in different ways. I get more leeway when leaving dd on her own, but like you, suchan, when she goes, she really goes. If it wasn't so fucking annoying, it'd be quite funny to see her get herself so worked up over, well, nothing.

It does not bode well for the teenage years.

Am in denial about the fact they will be teenagers. Entirely. Just depressed myself while both were napping by reading my previous posts about DS' sleep. Went on longer than I'd remembered. Why didn't I just use that opportunity to fecking sleep while she slept on me?!

thanks Astro if it was anyone else I would be telling them it's normal, don't listen to the mummy martyrs but every so often I doubt myself. Comes with outwardly doing things that go against the so-called society grain. Like at playgroup you get the looks as you are frantically rocking baby to sleep or the comments because you are not putting him down once he is asleep. However I am not staying in and hiding otherwise I'd start losing my sanity and have a poorer fraught relationship with the toddler.

I don't worry about rods as last time we did the 'right' things with sleep anyway and it still went 'wrong'. Had to try for my own sanity sake, this time I don't bother I just go with what works at the time. A MNer wrote that she needed the rods to keep her upright, I liked that.

Evening all. Another misery post from us too. DS1 didn't fancy play group this morning. I was dead set on going thinking he'd perk up when we got there. Then DS2 started crying and has just stopped. I don't bloody know what's wrong with him. Teething, I expect. So, anyway, we didn't go, which is a shame as I enjoy hanging out with other mugs mummies, and enjoy the gentle drip feed of tea and toast even more.

I agree with what you guys are saying about rods. I too am much more "going with the flow" this time, even co-sleeping from day 1, so I can't tell you how often DS2 wakes at night cos he doesn't always wake me (hurray!). However, I think part of his problem today was that he was tired so wanted to go to bed. With me, of course. Which isn't feasible when DS1 is downstairs proclaiming "I'm not DS1. I'm Spiderman" and climbing over the settee.

Out of interest, scarlett, what kind of sleep training did you do?

Tonight was my first attempt at bedtime on my own with them both.

Two more weeks until the magical "It gets easier at six weeks" moment. Right? Right?!?!?

With regards to 'rods for own back', I really worried about it with DD1 and tried all sorts to get her into nap routines etc. which never worked. But in the end, it all seemed to come together in its own time and she was a great sleeper from 6 weeks onwards, just not during the day.

With DS, I've been lots more relaxed about it all - he can eat and sleep whenever he needs to. This is my last baby, I'm going to enjoy his company rather than fret about his sleep/eat habits in a few years time. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. :)

Looby - Good news about the move, I hope the unpacking is going well!

Suchan - no magical tips for sleeping, however, what works for us at night is just taking DS into our bed. He starts off the night in his moses basket and I'm trying to keep him there as much as possible, as I don't intend to co-sleep properly ever (would never work for us as a long term thing). However, for now, it bridges the 4am-6am gap when he tends to be restless in the basket and refuse to sleep.

Grumpla - congrats for getting through double bedtime. I hope you're right about the magical 6 weeks, will join you in keeping fingers crossed.

Today's challenge is trying to get DS to nap in the big cot, in preparation for the move out of our bedroom somewhere in the coming months.

twinkle i didnt go to my group this week as dd was teething and v v v clingy. so we went to the park instead.

as for sleep training from about six months i give a bottle before bed at seven, then i wake at 11 to feed again and i then let them sleep. i did controlled crying for the first few weeks and its like a switch goes off in their head and they realise mommy won't be giving any milk any more. p.s let them cry just be close-by so they aren't going to get into trouble.

now ds 2 and dd 7 months only wake if they are poorly. and then its a rock and a cuddle and back to sleep/bed. after about 10th month i will drop the 11 o'clock feed for dd.

controlled crying hard but stick with it and it works. i also stopped co sleeping around three months.

hope this all makes sense.

DH going to be at work until after 10 so it is solo bedtime for me and the ds'. Normally doable but DS2 seems rather off colour and has been asleep on me for most of the day. Fine now but when I need to juggle him with DS1 things could get tricky. Too tired for this today...

grumpla hope you are still functioning! That's a major milestone. My first is on Friday. Eek.

I'm not holding out much hope for 6 weeks - felt like I'd been spun a massive tale last time when 6 wks came and went with no discernible improvement.

I'm definitely with Penguin in that how your baby sleeps- and how much 'parenting' they need to go to sleep has a massive impact on yr experience- especially after the newborn phase.

I know lots of MN isn't down with sleep training but after our experience last time, I will definitely consider it when the time is right. But it's what works for the family and baby.

Hope everyone has enjoyed the weather who has had it

Nah, suchan, it's the magical 3 month mark that starts to make a difference - although then the teething starts...

Met up with my mum friends this afternoon, for lunch in a child-friendly pub. It's got a carvery, so also overrun with pensioners getting slowly pissed while they eat a week's worth of badly cooked beef.

Food is generally crap there, but they've got stuff for dcs to do in and out of the pub. I'm the only one with toddler and newborn, but not for long! Ds had fun with his two little mates - although he did abandon them at one point to go and eat some mud .

Still not double bedtiming, although given the chance, dd would quite like to go to bed at 7. Tonight's bath night, so while dh baths ds, I'm able to sort dd out. Finger crossed I can have her down by 7, so I can eat tea with two hands.

Astronaut - am almost half way then (being a bit liberal with the maths there since DD only 4.5 wks)... Your evenings and bedtimes sound like progress if you're nearing double 7pm bedtime even without a double routine. You continue to give me hope. My DS v keen on mud so he would have happily eaten that with your DS and skipped the carvery.

In other news, feel like am developing RSI from so much fucking patting. But DH has been around today so has taken some of the sling patting duty.

Its funny we were watching old videos of the DCs then a toddler and newborn and it all seemed so much easier back then!!

They are now 3 and 5 and I frequently find myself rocking back and forth in the corner after they've gone to bed....

hth

Umm... moon ... WHAT??? It gets WORSE??

No, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no.

It will be hard until dd turns 1 - a month after ds turns 2. Everything will then be magically easier.

Putting one hardly used newborn on eBay now...

please don't say that. at least there both potty trained which i am thinking about doing soon eeeekkk

We've not done potty training yet either. I'm dreading it. DS shows zero interest in it as well.

Remember how I said the move went well? Getting into the house and the initial unpacking went fine but I've been at home by myself since then and nothing has progressed so there are still boxes everywhere and it's a lucky dip getting dressed in the morning! That coupled with DS2 continuing with multiple night feeds means I live in a perpetual state of exhaustion! DS1 has been a really good sleeper from quite early on so this is new for me. At least the weather is improving...

my ds is the same. no interest what so ever.

i moved in dec looby and left the little ones with my parents for two days while i unpacked and sorted like a demon. maybe expressing if you are bfing and let someone look after your angel while you get things sorted.

Looby , calm down! I just unpacked the last boxes from our move this January. We moved in December. December 2010. DO NOT PANIC. Boxes are fine. Stack em against a wall, adopt capsule wardrobes, as long as you have unpacked the beds, kettle and gin you are doing just fine

Suspect we will get round to potty training at the point when Looby unpacks her last box (we still have a couple left from our move 5 years ago ).

Am removing DDs EBay listing. She just had her first ever proper evening sleep (8-11)- previously she'd just do the odd catnap in that period. Did I spent it having quality time with DH and eating 2 handed? Did i . Slept my first 3 hrs straight since she was born. Contact lenses now welded to my eyes as wasn't expecting that. Rest of night could contain horrors but am fortified.

Thanks to both of you, that's reassuring to know. I'm not stressed about it, more wondering to myself where to begin! We will definitely get there, just takes a bit longer than without DCs. Like you say, the important things like beds and alcohol are sorted so there's nothing to worry about really