IS PARENTING A JOB?

[nicola1969]

I am a full time mum.. although hope to be an artist later,,

i have two children aged 7 and 10

my Partner for 20 years(we are not married) works full time and pays for everything..

He is always telling me that i should work also.. i feel that i am working.. looking after the children is definately a job.. if i didnt do it he would have to pay for a nanny or au pair..

what do you think .. being a mum...is what i do a job.?

Well, reading this, not sure if you are real or not, but if you are, there's one easy way for you to make money, and that's to teach French lessons!

I actually think that having two full-time workers, especially if you work a long way from your job, is very tiring and can put a strain on a family. I do it, because I love my career and so does my husband, but I do often crave a 'wife' in the traditional model, and love the days my mum comes in and picks up the children and makes the tea. I think it's too harsh to call someone lazy for living the life that quite frankly, many of our mums and grandmothers lived. My gran never worked outside the home after marriage, she spent all day cooking delicious homecooked meals and working in their cottage garden.

There's also no doubt that two working full-time parents don't have as much time to spend with their children, I know that because I am always rushed and don't have the patience or the time to do the homework slowly, or piano practice, or just hang out. If you don't get in til 7 in the evening, it does affect your quality of life with the children. I still do it, but I'm not naive that this has no impact on the children, or that spending more time at a slower pace with them wouldn't be better. I choose not to, which is my choice.

The issue here is that the OP's husband (if he also exists) is not happy and it is straining the marriage. I think in those circumstances, the OP should earn some money to relieve the pressure on him. But if he was happy, I don't think work is a moral issue if you are not dependent on the state, and others are happy with your contribution.

I certainly do not want to teach french or art.. i want to be an artist... I will give this a go.. give me a break .. i did my foundation course then three years art degree... now i will give this a go for at least a year and then decide after this..

In that case could you set up an online site where people can view and buy your art? That way you are showing your partner that you're working and trying to contribute financially,which will fill the gap between now and your exhibition. You could also approach local art gallery's/cafes/pubs to see if they would display your work with contact details so if people are interested they can buy direct from you. If your husband thinks you're really trying to make this work hopefully he'll give you a break

Good luck Nicola!
Give your dh a break, he's supported you so far and if things may have been tricky of late could that just be because he has expected you to earn money from September when clearly you need to be making your work before you can sell it?

I don't blame you for not wanting to teach - you may speak French and be an amazing artist, but that doesn't mean you'd make a good teacher. I could teach French and Art at a push as I am a great teacher - but not especially good at French or Art.

Well I'd like to be a novelist, but I don't have the luxury of sitting on my arse all day dreaming about what I'd like to be in my ideal world. So I have pursued an alternative career and write in my spare time.

And I am roffling at "staying at home all day producing lovely home cooked meals." I work all day and still manage to produce "lovely home cooked meals." The only convenience food in this house is fish fingers!

I am also a SAHM with school aged children who does art (and music) while the kids are at school (but don't have a cleaner, and only have a BTEC Advanced (or something like that, can't remember what it's called), not a degree in Art. So we're quite similar! Except DH seems happy.

I admire the fact that you got a degree in it, and that you've sold stuff, to me that is a measure of success.

I'm often confused about whether I should get a paid job when we don't actually need more money. I don't actually feel lazy because I'm doing music practice, having music lessons, doing art and housework before collecting the kids, then helping them with homework, talking to them about school and cooking tea while stopping every so often to break up fights. Nobody pays me to do any of it but I still feel tired from putting energy into it.

If your kids are at school you still look after them for 1h ish in the morning and 4h ish between school end and bedtime, so 5h ish in total. I find looking after children hard work! Do some people not think it is? I admire their coping abilities if they don't!

If I took someone else's children and looked after them for 5 hours, 5 days per week and weekends and they paid me to do it I don't think anyone would think I was lazy. But if I do this for my own kids (and don't have a paid job as well) I feel that lots of people on here will think I am. I find this hard to get my head round.

It seems that society only respects work that is paid and success is all about money. I feel some feeling of success if I pass the next grade in music, or perform well at a concert/gathering (usually for free), or finish a good piece of art. But on the few occasions I've been paid (and not much at all) I've felt a greater feeling of success, just the fact that I was paid, never mind how much. It confuses me that I feel this. Are things not to be respected unless someone has paid for them? Is it all about money? I know money is important and is a problem if you don't have enough.

I do think that if your DH is earning all the money then he shouldn't have to do any housework and only minimal childcare, and you should make his homelife nice for him when he comes home. I feel guilty that I don't keep the house perfect every day (sometimes it's very 'imperfect') because some days I feel I'm having 'mental issues' (slightly worried I've got something wrong with me, like my son who we're waiting for a diagnosis from paediatrician for).

My 'excuse' for not working and spending time doing what I want is that when I was working I didn't cope well with doing that and being a mother at the same time and was bad tempered with my kids. Doing a bit of what I want allows me to recharge and helps me be nicer to them when they are home. I must remind myself of this next time I feel like whinging to DH about how difficult the children have been! I was so (openly) irritated by their behaviour this pm and feel guilty that they must have felt I would rather they weren't there! (I'm having a 'mental' day). My son was being incredibly difficult, but the point of my non-working time is supposed to be to make me more tolerant and patient of my kids, so this pm I failed!

Sorry - this is just rambling with no solutions to the problem, as I'm confused about these things myself!

yup looking after the kids is most definitely a job and if you also study it can be quite taxing. I know... I have 2 school aged children,study towards a cert IV in nutrition and work 12h / week. I wish dh would fork out for a clearner LOL though he's just accepted that study/work/kids comes before a pristine house.

I can see your dh's point of view and he seems a darling anyhow building the studio/kiln for you. As your art studio isn't quite flourishing yet it might be worth to try finding a part time role somewhere, even if it's just a few hours a week? Could even be something like a teachers aide for art classes?

Not sure why people think i,m not real... i have been pinching myself just to make sure..

is it because my situation is unusual or is it because the majority of you work?

I don't earn money from working at present, but I sure as hell work.

The issue is that your DH thinks you aren't making a contribution to your joint lives as significant as the one he is making.

It sounds as if your contribution is minimal to your family life, and your dp is asking for that to be redressed. You need to think about that respectfully. Even in pragmatic terms, if your relationship with your dp breaks down, you'll be up shit creek financially, unless you've been very sensible.

Yes, parenting is a very important job. Especially for the first 7 or more years,

I do understand our culture has changed to both parents working; and there are a lot of one parent families.

Good luck in your new business nicola Hope you sell lots of work and start bringing money in so you have less pressure from your partner.

If the case is that when DC are at school, you are creating artwork then stick with it for a while. After 4 years of studying, you owe it to yourself to give it a go.

Also have a look at Flylady.com

Well, if it was a job, I'd have handed in my notice by now.

What a silly thread ... of course it is a job. I find that looking after dd is harder work then when I had a top job. When I had my job I had regular breaks and far more time for myself. Now, I do the school run, come back home, tidy the kitchen, hoover, mop the floors, do the bathrooms, tidy the garden, sweep leaves etc. Wash clothes, hang them out, do ironing, fix things when necessary etc etc Yes, this takes me 3- 4 hours a day. After that I start preparing dinner for dd, so that when we come back home she can eat almost straight away. Then it is time to go and pick her up, etc. etc. When dh comes home his dinner is ready straight away. I do some activities with dd after dinner. At the end of the day I am absolutely naggered, much more tired than when I worked (whilst I used to commute four hours a day!). I think that quite a few of the posters have no idea what SAHM does. What matters most is what is best for the children in my view. Not all this selfishness, I am sick and tired off it, why do you have children if you don't want to look after them? Why should other people look after your children and do you really think they care as much about your children as you? Really?

knackered that is

Dikkertjedap, It sounds like you work hard at being a SAHM. I think it's a job you can do badly and not put much effort into at all, which you can get away with because you have no boss, or you can put more into it and do it more like a job like you do.

Some days I feel I do it well and some days I find it hard to be motivated.

Since I read this thread the other day I felt guilty and cleaned the house cleaner than it's ever been haha!

MMM - that may be so, but I used to manage large teams, and you have the same in the office: some of the staff work hard, some you have to jolly a long, some you have to regularly talk with about their performance (when I was a manager the women with kids at home were not always the easiest employees by the way, they were worried about ill child with nanny, worried about the holidays, worried about all kind of things, as a manager I often had to shift part of their work to other people in the team to make sure deadlines were being met). Also, there is little doubt that SAHM can be lonely, in the office there is always someone to talk to at the coffee machine. I also spent quite a bit time baking, organising activities for dd and her friends (we are going to make X-mas decorations with salted bread dough today). I think the most difficult thing for parents today is that they have far fewer help from their family compared with their parents ...

Yes it is a job, without doubt and should be approached as such

Also when my oyungest starts school next year I shall be taking a holiday of a year of so. I shall not be going back to work, not for a good couple of years seeing as I haven't had a day off from the kids for years and years. I reckon I've built up a good holiday allowance .

I wasn't suggesting that you train to be a teacher, just think about what additional income could be earnt through things like tutoring French, or art for that matter. Your husband doesn't see the contributions you make as equal and appears burdened by being the sole breadwinner. I think it's highly likely that you can start to earn more if you are proactive and not sniffy about what you do, saying 'I want to be an artist' to the point of breaking the marriage isn't that productive really. I think some of the suggestions that people have made about trying to earn a reasonable second income through art are great, if you find your niche and publicise it appropriately. That would be the best of both worlds. But personally, if we needed more money in the house, someone going on about their ideal job choice whilst staying at home when their children were at school most of the week would really annoy me, all hands on deck and all that.

Nicola, of course childrearing is a job. It's just that those of us who have older children have noticed that there is a big

6 1/2 hour lunchbreak that most other jobs don't have .

Most of my friends were SAHMS during the early years. Now that our children are at junior school, nearly all of them work, at least during the hours that their children are at school. This still leaves plenty of time for preparing nice home-cooked food and keeping the house clean. Children of that age don't create anywhere near as much work as smaller children; they can be expected to dress themselves, wash themselves, put their own clothes in the laundry basket and do small household chores.

I certainly don't feel looking after a 10yo is anything like a fulltime job: we are talking about a child who is old enough to to bring you cups of tea and run down to the shops for you.

I have every sympathy with a woman who takes a year or two as holiday after several years of intensive childrearing. But if the OPs children are 7 and 10, she's had a few years of holiday, to say the least.

I would start thinking seriously of ways of earning money part-time. It may not work immediately, but your dh will feel better about things if he sees you are trying. And in few years, your children will be out with mates all the time, then they will be leaving home, you don't become more employable as you grow older.

My own dh has been enormously patient about my academic career (small difficult subject, years to get established). As it so happens, I have now managed to get enough work to contribute a reasonable amount to the household, while still being available part-time for things like children's doctors appointments. But if that hadn't happened by the time my dcs reached upper junior, I would have looked into other types of work.

There is a huge difference between being a SAHP when it makes life better for everyone and being one when it doesn't. I suggest you make a deal with your dh that you give the art thing everything you've got for a year or two and then reassess if it looks like you can make a living at it. that is, if there is enough money to get by until then.

My, like cory's, has also been patient while I'm finishing a phd he doesn't really see the point of. But the deal is when I've finished and the children are at school I will be working and he will have the opportunity to follow his heart in a less well paid field.

I would say it might be a good idea to start trying to get yourself into some sort of paid work or training, if nothing else then for your own sake, so you have some earning potential and financial security...

Actualy it seems a bit unusual that you've been together 20 years and have children together, and a traditional ''stay-at-home-wife type arrangement, but you're not in fact married. Not sure if you have some other legal agreement drawn up, but if not you're entirely dependent on your DP's goodwill, and it sounds like you're starting to run short of that.

How would you support yourself in the event of a split, and where would you live - if you've never been in paid work, I guess he owns the house, you have no savings or pension? What would happen to the children?

Seriously, I used to be against marriage, thought it was a patriarchal institution, intrusion of the state into personal relationships etc etc. And that's fine if you're both able to support yourselves independently. But if I was a SAHM with no income or means of my own, I'd definitely insist on getting married!

Artist? Piss artist, more like.

OP - you are lazy, you need to get a job. Your partner has supported you in your whims for years, he has said to you that he thinks you should contribute financially now the children are older. He has been very fair in all of this I think.

You need to get a job for the sake of your relationship, as he will start to resent you for your lack of contribution. I am sure he would like to jack his job in and do something more enjoyable, like underwater basketweaving or whatever, however he has GOT to work out of the home for x hours a week, to pay all the bills and support you in your little ambitions. And you can't even be bothered to keep the house tidy in that time, so he has to fork out as well for a cleaner.

What exactly do you contribute?