DD2 6 just told me something that has worried me...

[GruesomeShellChillingTortoise]

She just said that her 13yr old half Brother keeps pulling her trousers and knickers down and looking at her privates and has touched her(haven't asked her how). And when she is led on his bed he puts her knickers over her head so that his face is close to her privates.
I have just quickly spoken to him (because i didn't know what to say) and he said it was true. I have told him he mustn't do hings like that to his sister and that he shouldn't be looking/touching her privates.

Now i am worried and not sure if i should be doing/saying anything else to either DD2 or DS1.

Please help.

Knottyhair - that is interesting about brothers. I was abused by my brother. I was about 7 or 8 and he would have been 13/14. I never told anyone until I was 18 and attempted sex. It all came out then.

I told my mother when I was about 22 - i was really low at that time. I'm not sure she believed me. Life goes on. My brother has never been married and has been single for past 15 years.

Op - you are doing well. I have wondered what I would do if one of my dds said what you're dd said and I don't know.

OP glad you have made the call. it is the first step. you are being really brave doing this. i cannot imagine being in your shoes. well done.

Tortoise, so sorry you're in this situation. I just wanted to say that I think that you're a courageous caring mother and that your children are lucky to have you. SS will be able to guide and help you, please go ahead and speak to them as you won't be able to solve this on your own and will need help to do it.

It was extremely hard to make the call.

No phone numbers given but because of previous things i know how to contact SS. They will have everything on record from before i assume. In a way it feels easier to call SS because i know the head of year from when i went to DS1's school!
No call back offered but said if i need more help then call them again.
Hugs very welcome.

DD2 has been playing on club penguin for quite a while so that i could go upstairs to make the last call. I am not sure i am quite ready to phone SS right now. Although i understand i need to do it.

Hug sent. call them as soon as you can

More hugs :)

Make the call, you will feel better knowing that you've done something.

Your children are very lucky having you. If only peasant and the others had been able to be so honest with their parents.

deep breath OP, and pick up the phone. it will be easier than you think once they answer the phone.

Thinking of you Tortoise.

I went through similar when I was a little lad, really don't want to go into detail but I desperately needed love and attention from my parents at the time. You'll be doing a world of good to your daughter as she knows she can go to you.

Tortoise, am so terribly sorry for you all, that you have to deal with this - but it sounds to me like you are making decisions which will help to protect all of your children.

I think this is something which needs to be sorted by you, certainly at this stage. I can't see how it woul help getting outsiders involved.

Sounds like DS needs clarification on what's okay and what's not - he is only 13 after all and no doubt going through a lot of hormonal stuff.

Best not lose perspective, surely.

Have you any idea what you're saying messy?

Perspective? Her son, who is 13 and nearly old enough to be criminally responsible, is sexually abusing her two little girls. You have no idea.

It is absolutely NOT a question of losing perspective. You are doing exactly the right thing. Please don't listen to misguided (however well-intentioned) advice like this. Horrible horrible situation but you are being amazing. Schilke , so sorry to hear about what happened to you as well. It must have been so hard to tell your mum when you were older, and for her to not believe you... .

I apologise, I only skimmed the first couple of pages of this thread, didn't realise that it was so long and complex and just wanted to offer an opinion.

Of course you must deal with it as you see fit, Tortoise and I wish you luck.

Apologies again. I will read things before posting next time.

:)

I have been with this thread since the start, although i haven't posted.

Just wanted to say that you (OP) are doing brilliantly with handling everything

LarryGrylls, you should have stopped at "I cannot offer meaningful advice..."

This is nothing to do with some state vs. private sector political view.

'I am hoping it is far MORE innocent than the bald statement shows.' I am hoping that the qualified professionals will be able to determine the help needed and that it will be provided. I also hope that if ever a child of yours tells you about something of this nature being done to him or her you will not be as inclined to give the abuser the benefit of the doubt that your statement there implies. It's not pleasant to think about sexual abuse, but that is no reason to hope the initial report by the victim was a statement that possibly had more nuances than initially met the eye and will turn out to be just some game of doctor.

It actually does not matter at all to the victim here whether the intent of the DS was 'innocent', whatever that term means in this context -- I personally think the word has no place in this situation, no matter what definition is used. It's behaviour that is not normal, not appropriate, possibly resulting from a psychological disturbance, and very harmful to the victim and it needs to be diagnosed and treated.

Tortoise, I also think you should phone SS first and then call the school today if possible. Wishing you strength.

Mathanxiety,

I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are to yours.

You are completely ignoring the fact that the "abuser" is the 13 year old SON of the OP. It is not pleasant to think about sexual abuse but the black and white term makes no distinction between rape and a game of doctors and nurses. Yes, 13 is a bit old for that kind of thing, but 13 year olds are wildly different in development.

As ever, you ignored any nuance in my post. I suggested charities or private psychiatrists, not ignoring the behaviour. It is also possible that a talking to WILL deal with the behaviour. You do not personally know any of the people, nor do I. There are a whole slew of possible responses between "doing nothing" and going to the SS.

What do you think SS will do which will be useful to the OP, her daughter or her son? Seriously, I would like to know the answer to that.

larry social services will provide vital Suport to op in managing this type of behaviour in her family. They will listen to her fears and her wishes for her family, they will sign post the appropriate psychiatric help to her ds, and of course dd if that is needed. they will provide guidence on any diagnosis, they will engage with ds and provide family support. But more importantly they will provide evidance based and practical help in ensuring op and her family remain together and every member of the family is SAFE and take steps with the family especialy ds to limit this type of behaviour occuring again or esculating to anything more seriouse within or out side the family

FFS larry - you are a piece of work you really are.

Do not fucking trivialise this into "doctors and nurses".

You are going massively against all the advice on this thread.

I really really do not want to see this support thread for tortoise degenerate and I fear that what you have posted will certainly do that.

Over here those that want to debate why sexual abuse should be taken seriously (or not as larry is suggesting).

Tortoise - please ignore larry - hope your thread does not get derailed further.

Anyone else sickened by larry's attitude please can we take it over to that other thread.

Larry - violence against women and children is a serious matter regardless of whether it has been carried out by another child.

larry do you really think SS will not eb able to help all members of thsi family? where have you learned this opinion that SS do not help in such a situation?

teh fact that the OP's son is the abuser in this case doesn't change the fact that abuse has taken place and that both victims and the abuser all need help.

He is not an "abuser". He is an abuser no matter what the circumstances or where he is in terms of development, and he needs help just as much as the victim here does. If the victim experienced it as abusive and it was done against her will then he is an abuser.

'You are completely ignoring the fact that the "abuser" is the 13 year old SON of the OP' No, it is precisely the fact that this is the son of the OP and the brother of the girls that means that the situation cries out for the involvement of professionals. You have to separate out the abuse from the person doing it this is the crux of the horrible situation Tortoise faces, the aspect of all this that makes it so hard to deal with, and that means it needs professional involvement. All the people involved share the home together. It is the fact that this 13 year old is the OP's son that makes it doubly important to have his problems dealt with appropriately, while also having the problems this may have caused to her DD treated too.

Ginodacampoismydh answers your question. '..they will provide evidence based and practical help in ensuring op and her family remain together and every member of the family is SAFE and take steps with the family especially ds to limit this type of behaviour occurring again or escalating to anything more serious within or out side the family'

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about SS and 'the state' getting involved and tending to 'take over'. I don't see nuance in your post, and others have remarked on the boldness of your statement too.

Larry

I just hope you never have to experiance abuse within your family this is not two 5 year olds were talking about here

tortoise Ive posted a lot on this thread have dropped peasant as that was part of name on a benfits thread .I know it's hard but your doing the right thing
.Ds getting help now will redeuce the chances of him offending more and will show dd that no matter who it is that no one has a right to touch her how she does not want to be touched which will have relervence for her as she grows up

Am sending you a big hug

Tabouleh,

I don't give a flying fuck what you want! It is not your thread. So how about you take your asinine views back to a discussion on how wonderful Dworkin is and leave a thread about a real family in trouble.

Everyone else,

I think SS will follow a certain protocol and it is likely that the family will be broken up, given what the OP has already stated. Maybe that is the right thing, maybe it is not. The OP does have her own mind and can listen to whom she chooses.

There seems to be a magical idea amongst some here that there exists a class of "professionals" who can sort this kind of thing out better than the family itself. Personally, I am not convinced. Social Workers are NOT professionals. A professional is someone who has done professional exams.

This does not mean ignoring the daughter or brushing things under the table. There are a number of posters on here who have testified how awful that can be, too. It means dealing with it in a family setting first, finding out exactly what happened, physically preventing it happening again and getting the right help from a professional(s) of the OP's choice.

Want to add -- the factors that contributed to his behaviour must be dealt with in a positive manner here. It seems there are probably many issues that have had a bearing on his behaviour. A parent cannot give him the support he needs and simultaneously support the victim in these circumstances. The terms abuse and abuser can be applied to a broad range of acts and behaviours; nobody is using it here to denote 'rape' or 'rapist'; sadly a few have made up their minds that the labels of abuse or abuser are themselves more of a problem than what has been done to the young girls.