Would you have had kids if you'd known how tough it was?

[Angiel]

I don't know if I would have, its a bit late now though!!

In the early days (first 6 weeks or so)I felt like I had been robbed of my old life, and would definatley have 'given ds back' if I had the chance. But once I found my feet, I discovered Motherwood was the most wonderful thing EVER. The love I feel for ds is greater and more powerful than anything I have ever experienced. I wouldn't cahnge a thing.

I've thought long and hard about lipo but it's back to ww first, I think. I think my willpower was removed by c-section a couple of years ago, though. Only myself to blame really. I do take an 11year old and a nearly two year old to museums, castles, restaurants etc. Not quite the same I know, but we manage. A big age gap is great in that it's like sharing the burden rather than doubling it. Also, I've known my stepdaughter since she was six, so I do know there is really not that long to go before you have a potentially civilised companion to watch videos with! So far, I've got her into Doris Day musicals, PG Wodehouse and the more gruesome elements of history. Great fun! We all watched Notting Hill together the other day (except ds of course) and it was lovely.

BK, I do actually agree with you. My friends - the inveterate theatre and cinema-goers and antique shop potterers - would, I think, find their lives utterly shattered by having children and I suspect it would make them very happy. Also they are 40 and 45 which would make it worse - they are living very happily like retired people and are very much in love with each other. But if they did by chance have a child, I think the only way they would survive without feeling resentful is to try to keep up their old life as much as possible. They are lovely people, but I think parenthood would make them very unhappy. They are incredibly nice but always look rather appalled at our lives with ds, who is the most easygoing toddler I know.

I mean 'UNhappy'

bossy kate I think people do have trouble reconciling the fantasy wiht the reality the reason I was agreeing wiht you is that you seem not to and I agree it is not earth shatteringly controversial to point out the obvious. however the gist of a lot of this thread seems to be people would still like to be able to do those things even wiht a two year old and still struggle with the idea that it might not work.

ks you may have gathered that I am not the most articulate of all posters! I was referring to your comment that getting to the point of accepting the change was was quite a journey I was just wishing you fun on the way.

It's hells difficult to get intonation into type.

While I agree that motherhood is often idealised to a ridiculous degree, I also think it's sometimes difficult to reconcile your new reality with your old reality, and fantasy doesn't come it to it. IMO it helps to be very ready to live a new way of life and be a bit bored of the old stuff. which may be why IVF parents are shown in studies to be more devoted and happier parents than the average.

bubbly, i don't want to argue with you. i just find it rather baffling that you are praising bells for integrating the children into her old life yet appear to be criticising me for attempting to do the same thing - with less success however!

And I certainly wouldn't want to give the impression that all our hols and trips are unqualified successes. Far from it. It's just that from our perspective, the stress and the tears are ultimately worth it but we have certainly had our moments.

think part of the issue for us is that dh and i have very different ideas of what constitutes a good holiday... so we actually have a three-way compromise to make. hope i made it clear below that i don't think it's unreasonable for ds to have his own ideas of what's an enjoyable day out, far from it. it's just a question of getting a balance so that everyone feels they've had some enjoyment. so simple to say!

Motherinferior, I did not mean to say that all women who have terminations regret it, I just see a different side to it than most people do. The women who contact me certainly aren't happy with their decisions and they have been brave enough to talk about it. But that's a side-issue.

Yes I do things I hate with my dd. I hate mother and toddler groups, I hate Wacky Warehouses, I hate other children, I hate playing with her at dollies, I hate having to make her separate meals at times, I hate it when it's my turn to bathe her, I could go on....but I do all of these things for her, not me, because I love her and I know that she enjoys them. It's like when you do things you hate because you know your partner likes doing them, well how much more would you do them for your child?

We don't all have to be happy at motherhood, a lot of it stinks. And there is no-one saying that you have to do these things, apart from your conscience of course. But the fact is that your children blossom because of the things you do for them. It's a wonderful achievement when you see the end results of something you have put a lot of effort into. I don't mind so much now that I don't have a career, she is my career. When I see her trying to read, when people compliment her on her good behaviour, when she eats up all her dinner, when she learns a new word, I feel proud that I am responsible for most of that. I am moulding her into the person she will become, and I feel incredibly priviledged to be able to do that.

Yes of course there are times I feel like walking out of the house and leaving her, I have wanted to throw her out of the window when she was a baby, I've lost my temper and screamed at her until she cried. But isn't all that normal? No life is ever perfect, no matter what you would be doing otherwise, you would get days like that.

I don't think any one of us regrets our children. Maybe we regret the timing, or the circumstances, or the things we have had to sacrifice, but the very fact that we are all members of Mumsnet shows that we do care about our children, and we cannot regret the fact that they are here, with us.

Wow, what an interesting thread. It's got me a bit concerned though! For the Mums that woulnd't have had kids if you knew it would be this tough, are your kids all a lot older than mine (she's 18months). Am I living in some little bubble that's gonna pop when she gets older and I only think it's fab now but I've got it all to come??!! I'm really amazed that there seem to be more 'negative' comments than 'poitive'. No digs, just amazed and interested. Some were upsetting even, like Trifle who went on to have more children even though she knew she hated everyhting about being a mum! I truly love everything about being a Mum but feel a bit worried that when she starts talking and walking my bubble will pop and then school comes into it and all of a sudden I'm going to wish I'd never had kids. At the moment I still go out every weekend and don't miss anything about my 'old life' so maybe that's why I feel so content at being a mum??? I hate the thought that'll come to an end and I wished I was without children.

I agree - in fact I stopped reading this thread for a whil because of it.

I really dont see why it is SO hard - annoying maybe but not exactly mission impossible

yes, absolutely and utterley.
my DS was a nightmare newborn, screamed with colic for (at least) 3 hours a day EVERY day for 3 months, would only sleep in my arms until 3 months old (at night too). Didn't sleep through the night until he was 9 months old.

Before him I had a fab social life, plenty of disposable income, clothes, holidays blah blah
now, husband with depression who is not working (not related but anyway), no money, non existent social life. This is NOT a 'poor me' post just the contrary. There were many times I was in tears in the first year of DS's life, with exhaustion, frustration etc but not once did I ever think - I wish I'd not done it.

I could not live without him. simple. Just my personal opnion obviously.

yes yes yes! Of course my perspective is irrevocably altered by my experience of infertility, but I can honestly say that having ds has exceeded all expectations, and I feel immensely thankful that I have had the opportunity to experience motherhood. I wonder if perhaps we sometimes take it all a little for granted?

Of course I've had my share of 3am 'throw him out the window', and days of isolated frustration when we both ended up in tears, and times when I catch a glimpse of childfree freedom and feel a little wistful. But I kind of expected there to be difficult bits, surely there is enough information around these days that people don't REALLY expect it to be a bed of roses?? Of course you don't exactly know what the tough stuff will be like (and its probably different for different people), but I just remember thinking 'ok, so THIS is what people meant when they said it would be exhausting/lonely etc etc'

What I didn't anticipate was the intensity of love and joy he would bring to our lives, and how much I would smile and laugh with him. The enthusiasm for life of a small child is a wonderful thing to be able to share - I'm a much happier person now.

I also accept that generally I don't have a hard life - my material needs are met comfortably, I have a job I've discovered I love (since I had ds!!) and DH and I very much share parenting. I think it would all feel much more lonely, and I might feel regret and resentment, if it was all down to me, and if I was the only one making significant sacrifices.

Janstar, I was fascinated to read what you said about Lynda La Plante, as I wasn't aware that she regretted not having children. I always thought she gave the impression she was glad.

I had a similar experience at a conference last year. I was moaning that I was only 'allowed' to go to one day of the conference and would miss the dinner, as DS2 was only 3 months and I was b/feeding. A woman in her late 50's (childless) looked at me wistfully and said, 'well, you can't have everything.' That put me in my place, but I had a bit of an epiphany in that I saw in perspective just how fleetingly short these years when we're tied to babies really are, in the scheme of things.

I hate the boring bits but on balance, love being a mum and I know that these days will be over all too soon and it is so worth it. I am a bit worshipful (not a real word, I know) of my boys and feel I'm in the presence of angels anyway, so I prob shouldn't be answering this thread, but having said that, I've had days when I've felt almost as bad as Trifle. Those days pass, for me. They grow up so fast.

I must be OK about it (or totally bonkers) because when I look at older people who have never had children, I feel intensely sorry for them, in a really OTT way that resembles dread. When the boys are in their twenties I can read books till they come out of my ears, lie in all day, live in the shops, etc, so I only feel a passing envy for people with those freedoms now.

Rhubarb, do you really 'hate' all those things? It's a strong word - sorry to sound pious but it really saddened me to read it - surely you just find them boring or whatever, not really hate them?

I think you can start to hate some of these chores because they are day in, day out. Much like a boring job can turn into something that feels more like a sentence. If you like playing with dolls, fine, but if you don't it will soon turn into something you hate after 100 times.

I try to major in the aspects of babycare I don't mind or enjoy and let other members of the family or the childminder deal with stuff that does my head in.

My trouble is that I am interested in so many other things that I take on too much, and then resent the fact that the children need so much of my time. I'm trying to reduce my other projects cos it's not fair on them. When I cut down a bit I find I am much sweeter tempered and do not hate the child related chores half as much.

Bossykate. I'm sorry if I have trampled unnecessarily I actually thought you were an shining example of what I was trying to say. obviously not doing a good job of conveying things today so am going out to get slaughtered (without children......) and live with the consequences at 5 am tomorow morning

On fitting baby into your life, I totally agree with Aloha. My question to Aloha is this: when are you planning on having another baby? When it happens, I would like to know how you will be able to fit 2 little ones into your schedule (and manage to take them to museums, galleries, etc. I'm expecting Number 2 in December, and I really do feel like the next few months are my last few months of freedom. DD is 16 months old now.

Miranda2, if you are there, I am going to Italy with DD when she will be 19 months old. Any tips on how you managed with your 20 month old, especially with nap times, etc? We will be there for 2 weeks. It sounds like the naps were taken in the pushchair, which is what I'm expecting will happen.

Scummy - an odd mixture of selfishness and optimism with occasional fishwifey outbursts - that's me to a tee

Thomcat, my eldest is nearly 5, and I am still very much enjoying my life as a mum. I can honestly not think of anything - related to the children - that I hate. There are certainly things in my life generally I hate (I hate the place I live, I hate having to do the cleaning and washing up day in, day out etc) but my children bring me so much joy that these are fairly minor things, and not really related to the children anyway.

If the bubble is set to burst it certainly hasn't done (for me) yet. I think it's something you know from the start - you either love it or hate it. And I love it. There is nothing else I would rather do - nothing comes close

Enid - sorry but yes, I do hate them. I think it's like Janstar says, when you do these things day in and day out, you really get to resent it. The ONLY thing that makes it worthwhile is to see the enjoyment that dd gets out of it and to see her developing because of it.

And I don't mean to sound braggish here, but I do take my dd (3 tomorrow) to art galleries, museums, restaurants and other 'grown-up' places. It's a bit like taking them to Church, once they know how to behave they will do so all the time. Ok, sometimes she plays up like all kids do, but she does know that if she oversteps the mark we will take her away and punish her. I tend to think that I do enough children's stuff during the week to be able to indulge myself in grown-up stuff once in a while.

I'm expecting No.2 in December, so I'll let you know if the same method applies to this one!

is there any working mum on this thread?

I wonder if feelings towards your children are different if the children were looked after by somebody else during the day?
oh, and if somebody else was doing your daily chores (cleaning in general...)