Would you have had kids if you'd known how tough it was?

[Angiel]

I don't know if I would have, its a bit late now though!!

My husband and i have been having exactly the same conversation although i have to say i wouldn't change my kids for the world. It is at times really difficult not to mention extremely boring but it'll all pay off - i just live for the next smile or the hugs my 22 month old gives me that seems to make it all worthwhile. I think the hardest thing is not being at work and when you've been use to the work social life and decision making it's hard to suddenly have menial decisions to make like 'when should i put the washing on?'
I think everyone gets a bit lonely and i know i desperately miss the company of my husband when he's at work, in a way i envy him because he's lucky enough to have the best of both worlds - kids and work so can flit between the two without getting too bored of either.
I would probably balance out work and motherhood if it was a possibility but i know when it came to it i'd miss my children plus i don't think i could earn enough to cover nursery costs.
Just think to yourself that this time can never be recovered - you only get one chance to watch your children grow up. I've got friends who for financial reasons have to work full time and envy me for being able to be at home, i've come to the conclusion that nobody ever realises at the time how lucky they are.

before I had DS I used to work for an agency in which most people where quite young average age about 27. Amazingly, even though they employed 60 people and had been going 15 years I was the first person to get pregnant! They literally had no idea what they were supposed to do.

When it came to going back to work after maternity leave it was obvious that it was full time or nothing (and I only wanted to work parttime)
I ended up going freelance which was very scary (financially) but has worked out fantastically in terms of flexibility. Since I left another girl got pregnant and she has not gone back either (same reason).
Just seems a waste to me - all that experience and skill lost by the company because they seem unable to cope with arranging part time work.

I use to work as a care assistant quite a few years ago in a nursing home. I did get another job working the occasional night for another nursing home once my daughter was a bit older and i'd stopped breastfeeding but when i became pregnant with my second child no alterations were made to the conditions of my work so i had to stop for fear of risking the baby. This industry doesn't seem to be very sympathetic to pregnant women

Just a depressing thing I read today about Norway - a woman who was considered to be a 'good mother' had her 2 children taken off her because her IQ was 'too low' - about 53, I think. She has since had it re-tested and it was 95 on the 2nd test so she can appeal to get her children back. Much as I think Scandinavia sounds idyllic in many ways, obviously not quite perfect.

teletubby - that seems ridiculous, we're always hearing about the shortage of decent, experienced care staff, you'd have thought they would bend over backwards to make it easier for you.

Katierocket, yeah i know! I must say i was really enjoying having my own bit of financial independence again plus was planning to save up all the money i earned so as once the baby was born it would give me a bit of financial flexibility to go shopping on rainy days etc My husband never begrudges me anything but i'd feel a bit guilty if i went off on a spending spree with his money every time it rained!
i had thought about doing my nurses training at one point (like you say they're crying out for people) but was amazed that they don't have any childcare help whilst you're training - they just give you £5000 a year which should be criminal.

Tinyfeet, our daughter will be 6 in a few weeks time. She has always been a very sociable little bug and has always been quite happy to spend time away from us with other family members or friends. I know that we have been very lucky with her and my granny has always said to me don't have any more chidlren as you'll never get another one as good/well behaved.

What my granny doesn't know is that we are actually in the process of ttc baby#2. I've been wanting to have another baby for years and now that we're actually trying I'm beginning to wonder if I should just quit while I'm ahead and stick at one, lol

I'm sure you won't regret having another baby tinyfeet, but I do know what you mean when you say you wonder about it. I have the same thoughts running through my head.

It's amazing how quickly all the sleepless nights and sheer exhaustion that you'd forgotten with your first suddenly come flooding back to you when you have your next child. We've just had our second baby and i really had forgotten how tiring it was, i looked back and thought 'oh it wasn't that hard' but then when the baby arrives you're still not prepared for it even though you've already been there before. It's all worth it though and my eldest (22 months) simply adores her little sister - i can't wait until they're old enough to play together.

Can I just say thanks to everyone for a fascinating thread. It's helped while away an otherwise deeply boring couple of hours at work waiting for the Nightly News to start (I'm a subtitler).

I just wanted to pick up on motherinferior's point, quite a long way back in the thread, about sometimes feeling nervous when she's got a whole day ahead to fill - this really struck a chord with me, cos that's just how I feel with ds (19 months) sometimes. I, too, think it was very different for my mum, who didn't - I don't think - particularly view the days as gaps to be filled with baby or toddler-centred activities. She did what she had to do, and we were taken along/put in the playpen accordingly. I don't know why I started off so differently, but on my two days off a week I'm more or less totally ds-centric (and I think it would be the same if I were at home full time) I'm not particularly proud of this - I envy all those who regularly visit museums/galleries or chill out with a leisurely coffee. I try these things intermittently, but ds is yet to discover his inner calm!

One of the most difficult things about motherhood - other than my totally unexpected PND - is dealing with ds throwing up. I'm an "emetophobic", I believe it's called - totally freaked out by people being sick or the possibility that it might happen. I can clear up after the event OK, but to my shame I have lingered outside his bedroom door while he's actually doing it, leaving dp to actually participate, and then I've gone in to take over. I feel awful about that, but after a couple of sessions with a cognitive behavioural person, I despair of being able to cured. Mind you, when dp is ill, I'm under the duvet with my fingers in my ears. Sigh. How pathetic is that.

Some of you may remember that dp is a woman and we've just found out - fingers crossed - that she's just conceived our second child. So amid the delight I feel, and excitement about extending our family (not to mention terror at loss of sleep and childcare logistics!) I'm also really worried that dp will get morning sickness, and that she'll have a sicky baby! Ds was remarkably continent with his milk and has only thrown up properly about three times.

Oh dear, hope I haven't harped on about vomiting too much! But if anyone has a similar phobia, I'd be only too happy to hear about it.

I seem to be on a different planet to the rest of you (as usual ) You all seem to be either SAHMs or in well-paid high-powered jobs.

I spent my 20s "working very hard" (aloha) having my children, so missed out on any chance of getting established in a decent job, while still young enough. DH was made redundant when DD was only 10 months old & I was already just pregnant with DS, then started a delivery job when DS was born that meant he was always away, & I just couldn't stand being alone all the time. Just as we were on the verge of splitting up (& how close he still doesn't know) we rearranged everything so he could work less hours & I'd work part-time.. bad move.

13 years on & he's still in the same job & I'm on the 3rd one, full time. We earn between us enough to have to pay our DDs full tuition fees next year, but not enough that either of us has any chance of doing something else- I worked out today that we could only live on his money if by some miracle we could do without a car or any form of travel & if we cut our food bill back to about £50 a week (for 6). As work is 20 miles away, I can't see it.

We share the childcare, but as lisa (was it lisa?) says, he "doesn't realise" there's washing in the machine; never checks for notes home from school; "forgets" DS3s coat; doesn't see why he should have to remind them about kit, coats, bags etc, so doesn't. I'm the one racing round like a lunatic in the morning sorting out shirts & dinner money & kit, while he is sat at the table "having his breakfast". He really can't see what there is to do.

I am really really envious of the girls I went to school with, who all married men with earning potential & are now able to choose to work part-time- or not at all. It's very hard to enjoy the hassles of motherhood when you are on the go all the time. The last thing I want after almost an hour sitting in a traffic jam is to have to sort out an argument about who has stolen whose beyblades the second I walk in the door! (Then there's the...what are we having for dinner? Did you get any milk?...)

As far as work is concerned, DH was next in line for promotion, but the chap immediately after him was able to go in for extra hours (unpaid) and prove he could do it, while DH had to get home to look after the kids. (This is a poxy supermarket we're talking about, not high finance).

The only advise I'd give my kids about work would be to do something they really love- even unpaid- while they are young enough for us to support them, so they've got the experience there when it counts. I wish I had.

Tallulah, I'm in a similar position to you. Although I had worked in local government for 10 years prior to giving up to be a SAHM I never got beyond the clerical level so it wasn't a career as such. I was out of it for 6 years and recently went back to work as a clerical officer on a pittance when DH left his highly unsuitable job. We now struggle on £10,500 and a little bit that he brings in working part time around the children. We also see people of our age in their large detached houses, going on foreign holidays and having money to throw around. We often wonder where we went wrong as we seem to struggle just to stand still and it seems to have been like this for as long as we have been together. We dream of a lottery win to make things different, we don't want an awful lot, but having a house big enough for the 5 of us would be a start. DH is a SAHD but like you, it is me that has to be responsible for getting things done - he just doesn't think about it.

Juno-

"One of the most difficult things about motherhood - other than my totally unexpected PND - is dealing with ds throwing up. I'm an "emetophobic", I believe it's called - totally freaked out by people being sick or the possibility that it might happen."

Hey - me too!!! I'm ok with baby sick, but child- oh dear. I am getting better. Last week ds1 threw up all over me and I coped. What I really hate is when dh, ds1 and ds2 are all throwing up and I have to run arund and deal with it. I got so totally stressed out last time that happened! It's OK if dh is around as he knows what I'm like and rescues me.

We all have our limits. For example I didn't expect that I would still be cleaning up poo from a 4 year old- and I do - and occasionally from everywhere. It doesn't bother me at all. I didn't think about nits before ds1 was born, but they're ok, but vomit - no no no.

(sorry to interrupt but I am faxcinated by Juno being a subtitler)

Jimjams I totally sympathise with you. I can deal with poo,wee, snot and baby sick but not vomit.I dont freak out but I just cannot clean another persons vomit up.All my children have grown up knowing this and when they feel sick they go and vomit in the toilet, even my 2yo ds.
Ds2 fortunately never vomits, if he has it has been like baby sick so able to cope with that.

As many others have said, this thread has made fascinating reading. I found your comments thought-provoking, Tallulah. Isn't it remarkable how we all want different things for our kids, but usually we want for them what we feel we ourselves would have liked to have? I, too, do this, and often find that what my kids want isn't the same thing at all.

On a more general note, regarding the main question that started all this off....

My brother sent me one of those email questionnaire things, designed to help you get insight into another person's life. When asked 'What is the worst feeling in the world?' I replied 'Trapped in family life'. 'Best feeling in the world?' - 'Secure in family's love'.

oh thank goodness there are other people out there who can't stand vomit! i was ok with baby posseting, and luckily ds didn't do much of it anyway. but if i see someone being sick, adult, child, i'm afraid i really can't bear it and am likely to throw up myself.

example - ds puked in the car coming back from holiday, his whole breakfast. poor dh had to clean him and the car up, as i was head down chucking up at the roadside. nice.

I don't mind poo and vomit - it's snot I cannot stand. (sorry to be so gross but there you go)

I hate snot AND vomit. I did a playgroup duty recently which involved eating with 20 children.
There was so much snot around that I couldn't eat my lunch. (a first)

I would DEFINITELY have had children. But maybe not at 23 years old. Dp and I had only been together 11 months when I found out I was pregnant, so there was so much to do.... we had to buy as house too! So the answer is YES! But maybe would've have waited until we had a house bought and had managed a holiday together.

Since having ds this has been thee hardest time in my life without a doubt. But I love seeing him develop and knowing that my body grew him from almost nothing. It fills me with so much emotion it's overwhelming.

I can't wait to do it all again (with a bit more planning first!)

Tallulah, I think from your aside you implied that I didn't think you worked hard. That wasn't at all what I was saying. The discussion was the impact of children on finances and more particularly, women's careers. Had I had children in my twenties (which I was not in a position to do anyway as didn't meet dh until I was 35) I too would not have been able to step into a reasonably lucrative freelance career with comparative ease. I was just pointing out that if you have children young it is harder to have flexibility in paid work as you are not likely to be as experienced and thus indispensible, whatever your job is. There are many disadvantages to having children later in life, and TBH it wasn't what I thought I would do, and sometimes I was frightened I'd never be a mother, but the advantage was that my twenties and thirties were devoted to working very, very hard developing my career, which means that now I have some choices in that area. One is not better than another, it is just the way it is.

A similar story here, Aloha. Since having DS1, I've been able to land the best job ever, and the fact that it's part time is the icing on the cake.

Here too. I got to the point where I thought it was very likely I'd never have children - and I'd always wanted them - but at least that meant I both built up the experience to change career and go freelance, AND had no dependents to take into account when I did. I'm very lucky, I know.

Tinker, I SO agree with your comments on the grumbling of male colleagues. If I had a quid for every bloke who'd told me how much they wish they could work a 4 day week, I could have retired years ago. There is nothing whatsoever to stop them doing so, except of course the cut in pay, loss of status and removeal of promotion prospects of course.

On the law issue, I was surprised by Jimjam's post as most of the women I know who still work with 2 - 3 children do 3 / 4 days a week at city law firms for 3 or 4 /5th salary. Their hours are far more reasonable than say investment banking, being 8.30 - 5.30pm or so. Sure, many of them have moved into more support type roles although depending on their field, a few remain involved in client work. They will clearly never be made partners but at least they are still doing interesting, well paid jobs with their qualifications and years of experience still being used. Personally, I think this is quite a major breakthrough for women. I think it is just too ambitious to hope that you could end up as partner in a top firm when working set hours on a part time basis given the people (both male and female) you are competing against and the relatively small proportion of partnership opportunities.

Re the law thingy I know of three dentists who are retraining as lawyers as they percive law to be a less stressful/more enjoyable/better paid job than dentistry.
Sounds like they may be in for a surprise.
Also as a matter of interest, out of my class of about 55 dentists, three have attempted suicide. One girl in the year above me did indeed kill herself.

absolutley not its a feckin nighmare!