Are there any feminists out there?

[roundwindow]

And if so, where are you all hiding?!

Maybe I hang out in the wrong places, but since I left university (and later since I left London where I had a quite lefty arty-farty public sector job) I just feel like I'm the only feminist left on the planet.

I used to think my parents were hideously conservative and archaic with all their 'oh you and your women's lib' responses to my values. But maybe it's just the world of grown-ups?

What made me think about this was that I was recently reading Trinny and Susannah's 'What your clothes say about you' book and the section on new mums seemed so jaw-droppingly misogynist (sp?) to me. 'Pity your poor husband when you don't make an effort, don't be surprised when he leaves you for someone more interesting.... don't even think about wearing flats!' etc etc. And yet this is mainstream, this ideology is everywhere. Makes me so

And the culture in all the gossip magazines, where no young female seems to ever be accepted on her merits and it's all about what she looks like or how undignified her behavour is.

So any other proud-to-be-feminists out there? Tell me what you're thinking about!

I don't really know what feminism means to be honest. But isn't it just understanding sisterhood? And recognising that the lot of a woman is not the lot of a man, even though they might live under the same roof? Oh and it's backing the woman in any dispute with a man, regardless of the facts.

I take the point (as I did below) that it requires a certain degree of earning power to fund childcare costs.

The problem is not to the extent that you claim, however. Using your own figures of childcare costing £1500 a month. So a woman would need to earn around £2000 a month net in order to work. Gross that equates to around £32k a year. Which is above the average wage but nowhere near £100k a year.

The trouble I think is that a lot of women don't have aspirations to well-paid jobs - which then leads of course to them not having them...

quattro;

i was talking about me going it alone, not depending on a mans income at all..

my mortgage is £1000 pm
my food is about £600 pm

gas/electic/council tax....all other direct debits, another £500 a month

i would honestly need to clear around £4000 a month....what's that..at least £70,000 pa.

Normally there is a partner/spouse on the scene so doesn't the childcare costs come half out of his salary as well?

Women's view of the cost of childcare is all wrong in that they assume 100% responsibility. But it should be shared AND it's only temporary (until the child starts school) so even if you are making a loss it is a short-term pain for the long-term gain.

I honestly think that maternity pay should be borne 50:50 by the father's employers and the mother's employers (where both are involved parties). This would stop a lot of the discrimination against women of childbearing age for jobs. It might also make men feel more responsible for the cost of their offspring vis a vis childcare and work.

Where does the equality principal apply in the payment of Childcare costs? Surely in an equal society it is not the mother's earnings that must cover the full childcare and child-related costs?

I have worked before in the situation where my earnings did not cover childcare (so technically the family was worse off with me working), and even though I consider myself a feminist I found it difficult to get my head around the fact that H was also responsible for the payment of childcare (in which case my working covered more than half the payments but little else).

I do believe that if I have been looking after children and doing housework from 9-5 whilst H is at work, then when he comes home we are on an equal footing and it is not my job to do evening housework (just as it is not his) otherwise there is an unequal work balance. So all evening housework/childcare is shared.

x-posts Great minds... Swedes

Youknownothing

the real issues for me are not work related, women have plenty of rights at work, and in alot of cases are earning more than their dh/dp.

the problems for a lot of women are in the home..domestic violence/emotional abuse/

happens every day..and it is (in many cases) money that keeps women in these awful situations .

Quattro, being dependent on a man, briefly, was the pay off I had to make for having a baby. It in no way makes me less of a feminist than you, it just means I earn a lot less, and I have a better understanding of the financial logistics more ordinary earners face.

ps, I had aspirations to have a good job, but I didn't do well in my exams and didn't get in to university.

Maybe I'm not as intelligent as you are, but I'm still not less of a feminist. I'm a feminist but a realist too. Some high-earners have no comprehension of the obstacles the vast majority of lower-paid women face.

Love the idea about mat pay being shared between both parents employers - brilliant idea.

You can imagine the job interviewers changing suddenly changing from trying to work out if a woman is going to have children, to trying to work out if this man in front of them can't keep it in his trousers and doesn't "like" condoms...

The thing that interests me hugely about this thread is that people's view of what the most important feminist issues are, are so enormously influenced by their own life experience. The range of points rasied is just so enormous, to actually get anything done, you just think, where to start...?

I think feminism is an abomination. Women should accept that their place is in the home, raising children and massaging their husbands' shoulders when they come home.

I also think George Clooney is hideously unattractive.

As if.

Deffo feminist here. I think a lot of feminist ideals have become so intertwined into mainstream culture that they are more the norm than say 30 years ago (note: I say 'ideals', not 'practices' - there's still a long way to go!). As a result of this people assume that anything that calls itself 'feminist' must be more extreme than the everyday pro-woman values that many of us take for granted. Since few of us would call ourselves extremists of any sort, most women shy away from calling themselves 'feminist'.

Does that make sense? I'm sure someone's said it already, more eloquently than I.

I'm another one who is sick of the pornifying of mainstream culture and the misogyny that brings.
I worry for young girls. I think things have gone backwards.
I hate the way feminism has been hijacked by people who say pole dancing is empowering.

I think many people have forgotten what our Grandmothers often had to endure. No right to equal pay (I know there is a long way to go, but it wasn't even considered then), few laws against domestic violence, poor access to contraception, an abdication of rights on marriage and so much more.

Yes I love the idea of maternity leave/pay being shared. More affordable childcare would be good too.

Margot - I did not intend to suggest that I am in some way a better feminist than you - that was not the intention of my posts at all. Apologies if I expressed myself clumsily.

No worries Quattrocentro...

More affordable childcare would be the answer. SO many discussions on MN always boil back down to more affordable childcare.

Hiyaaah!

mainstream culture (patriarchy) has predictably co-opted feminist ideals to its cause. So right to work bcms sex in the city bcms right to shop etc.

Our big fight, over the next decade, is to disentangle feminism from aspiration.

It's not about the right to buy, is it?

Oooh where can I get a card? Do they do pink ones?

Oh yes! Pink ones in a discreet little floral plastic wrapper so if you drop it accidentally from your handbag you won't die of embarrassment!

You can get perfumed ones, too, for added protection...

ha ha onebatmother!
I'm viewed as an oddity at work - for continuing to use my maiden name (we should change this, I was not a maiden while unmarried!) , for complaining about sexually harassment and nothing being done about it. Funnily enough, it's my female colleagues who are being particularly nasty. The concept of sisterhood is non existent, I tell you.

that's often true sbs....i've had more problems with other women than i've ever had with men.

I am a feminist. All women should be. Women who say they are not are either silly, or don't really understand what constitutes feminism. The thing that makes me laugh is the perceived prescriptiveness of it; a feminist may not be or do such and such, etc.

Things really, really bugging me at the moment include the acceptance of porn-ness into popular culture and the fluffypinkfairybarbie brainwashing of little girls. As well as the myriad things that have always concerned me, most of which have been covered here.

I refuse to claim I'm a feminist because there are too may damn women arguing about what one is exactly - even to the point of alienating other women!

Until some one comes up with the definitive definition I'm contenting myself with knowing that gender, though it might influence how I choose to live my life, should not in any way decide that for me. I realise there is a multitudinous host of historical precedent BUT, I neither accept nor expect anyone to factor my gender into their dealings with me.

My contribution to any cultural movement has to be on the basis of the way I live my life and the example I set my daughters and anyone else I meet along the way.

Race and diversity is recognising the necessity of treating everyone according to their needs, not treating everyone the same.