Are there any feminists out there?

[roundwindow]

And if so, where are you all hiding?!

Maybe I hang out in the wrong places, but since I left university (and later since I left London where I had a quite lefty arty-farty public sector job) I just feel like I'm the only feminist left on the planet.

I used to think my parents were hideously conservative and archaic with all their 'oh you and your women's lib' responses to my values. But maybe it's just the world of grown-ups?

What made me think about this was that I was recently reading Trinny and Susannah's 'What your clothes say about you' book and the section on new mums seemed so jaw-droppingly misogynist (sp?) to me. 'Pity your poor husband when you don't make an effort, don't be surprised when he leaves you for someone more interesting.... don't even think about wearing flats!' etc etc. And yet this is mainstream, this ideology is everywhere. Makes me so

And the culture in all the gossip magazines, where no young female seems to ever be accepted on her merits and it's all about what she looks like or how undignified her behavour is.

So any other proud-to-be-feminists out there? Tell me what you're thinking about!

I'll join you. I'm sick of the way we are portrayed in the media and on TV, even on childrens catroons it's the mum that stays at home and runs around after the family, feeding them, cleaning etc. This isn't a good view for the children.

"Because women's work is underpaid or unpaid & what we look like is more important than what we do & if we get raped it's our fault & if we love women it's because we can't get a real man & if we expect community care for our family we are selfish & if we stand up for our rights we are loud & if we don't we are typical weak females & if we want to get married we are out to trap a man & if we don't we are unnatural & because we aren't deemed responsible enough to decide how, when or if we give birth, we are feminists" - Joyce Stevens (written in 1975 and not a lot has changed, eh?)

Nothing's changed. We are still second class citizens, I hate the term 'women', it's 'man' with a womb, female is also a male term, as is history. There has never been equality. Take the mum, it's irrelevant how educated she is, once the child arrives most of the care falls down to her, once the child is at school one of the only options availiable that fit around the caring for the child is a crap, part time job making her dependant on benefits or the father. Shite if you ask me.

roundwindow - welcome to MN if you are new here. I said a few weeks back that Im proud to say I am a 'feminist man' but I also got roundly flamed for saying I liked 'feminine feminists' who walk the walk' of feminism not just 'talk the talk' - but hey that is just MN and no hard feelings.

I agree with everything that ItsMargotBeaurEGGarde has said and especially this:

"And the point I'm making is, if we truly had an equal footing in society (which we definitely don't yet) then we would be allowed to be different from men. We have to be the same to be equal at the moment. "

That is how me and my wife feel about it and it is an issue very close to my heart.

Incidentally, I also think the portrayal women in society as sexual objects and especially in the celebrity culture is vile. That along with pole dancing, lap dancing etc is surely a step back in time.

Feminist and proud. Also raising my kids to be feminists, son as well as daughters. Kids TV is incredibly sexist and seriously brain washes children - simpering skinny girl watches active intelligent problem solving boy etc.

To combat this we started shouting out "bingo!" whenever we saw a woman / girl behaving in a non-sterotypical way. Unfortunately opportunities are rare, and now my dcs have introduced "Ognib!" to highlight dreadful beautiful but dull female behaviour. It works a treat for making the kids aware of what TV is peddling.

Also used during bed time stories, which means I can hardly get out more than a few paragraphs of Famous Five before being drowned out with "Ognib!!!!"

Hell yes, times have not moved on since the Flintstones which I find shocking. I remember the Jetsons, mum at home, dad at work, mum thin with make up. We have some childrens channels, the majority of ads aimed at girls are for dolls or lelly kelly shoes that come with free makeup Even Lego Star wars with the compliant Princess Lea drives me nuts. I'm trying to raise my son to believe that girls are an equal, it's not easy though. I worry about all the things he's subjected to. Even on the letters I recieve in the post I'm called Mrs most of the time. I belong to me thanks! I am my own person.

not proud to be

It's an everyday non negotiable fact that holds neither pride, apology or disclaimer

I'm thinking about eating my dd's Easter egg.

I like Trinny and Tranny btw and think that they speak sense about making the best of what you have. They never advocate weight loss or surgery. They want women to value themselves and make the very best of what they have available to them.
I agree that they might not have worded or phrased that section of their book very well but the underlying message isn't necessarily the wrong one even if it is expressed in the wrong way.

Many new mums need to be given some support to have the time to look after themselves too.
Perhaps T&T were trying to appeal to the legion women out there who don't have the self worth/confidence to think that they are worthwhile to take time or effort over. These women would be motivated however by the idea of doing it to make something more pleasant for someone else.

Not ideal but they are far from the worst culprits in the media.

facts are I don't want to be a man..i'm a woman..a strange one so I've been told but still a woman ...feminism is about the equality of fundimental rights as a human male or female...I like flowers bunnies are cute but i hate chick flicks..lol

Feminism is about your right to choose Mumcentreplus. If you want to wear make up and dress like a barbie then you can, if you choose not to then you should be treated the same as the barbie make up lady. Both ladies should be an equal to a man, with the same rights and the same expectations for their life if this is what they choose. Women as a whole do not have this freedom to choose how to be treated. Girls are still forced to marry and bear children before their bodies are ready, women still sell themselves for an addiction, women still work in part time jobs more then men because they care for the children. Where's the choice?

i completely agree Bunny..it's about choice..but if also about fundimental rights as a human..

human = hu + man!

Women have drawn the short straw for centuries, it takes time for change but this is slow. Women since the hunter/gatherers have been seen as the carer, lacking the physical stregnth for hunting or fighting. If men were to have a uterus it would be the same for them I think.

Me.

Dh took my name too at marriage - so we doubled up and are indeed equal.

But I did paint dd's [4] nails today, as it felt like fun for both of us. And I wondered. I thought, here we go - train her up to attract a man like a barbie doll.

But then I though, no, this is feminine culture. She can paint her nails, it will not make her emotionally or sexually available. It will make her nails pink.

I refuse to give up some of the fun of being a woman - and this girlie stuff is fun for me sometimes.

Mainly though I look like a haystack. I wouldn't wish to advertise myself as glam.

It's the choice to paint your nails that's more important then doing it. Workwise it's often a different story though as a womans choice to get to the top is often limited. There are stories of women in other countries who's whole lifes are defined by men and their role as a wife and mother. Think of the popular childrens cartoons that your children watch andyou can still see the gender bias that still goes on. The simpsons for example, useless dad that sits on the sofa, goes out to work, little understanding regarding his children, wife stays at home, does not work, thin, attractive (despite the blue hair), cook, carer of the children and the home. These are not good values for our children, boys or girls, to see.

I really don't care what the titles are...i'm happy to be a woman couldn't give a toss ..i just want the same rights,pay and respect end of...

The titles are important, they signify that as a 'woman' you are always in the shadow of 'men' due to your 'womb'. I like to think of it as the other way round, men are in the shadow of women.

it's up to YOU as the a parent to change that structure in your family..not the media

Yes, that's why shite like that is banned. I do discuss the gender bias with my son, how many others do this though, it's like the effort to combat climate change, there needs to be more then a handful of people singing the same song.

facts are men are in our shadow..we bear and bring children into this world...no matter the title this does not change...what i do as a mother is a different thing all together...

Etymologically, 'man' simply means 'human being', 'member of society', 'person'. You could equally logically (ie, perhaps not very logically ) say we are special because we have our own word, 'woman'. You are not going to like this but the 'wo-' bit comes from 'wif-', which is the root of 'wife'. However it just meant 'adult female'. So 'woman' is 'adult-female-person' - not a criminal word at all!

there's an awful lot of tail-chasing on this thread. I'm getting quite dizzy
we don't all want to be MD of some multi-national company. I am happy being a mother who cooks and looks after the family. I also work full time, looking after other people's children so they can go out to work. Not the best paid job but fairly essential.
Raising children is one of the most important jobs there is. I don't really think the sexes are equal, we have different roles and should work as a team. We complement each other, like vodka and coke, both ok on their own but better together!
Oh, and anyone who watches the Simpsons knows that Homer is stupid and Marge is in charge, even my DD12 has worked that one out.

I used to think that I wasn't a feminist because I thought that it inevitably meant being a labour voting-Greenham Common picketing-bra burning nut, but having grown up a bit and realised that if as a woman you want to live in a society where your right to equal self determination is taken for granted, you must be a feminist.

Can someone please tell me what defines a feminist?

I am a SAHM who takes a certain amount of pride in doing that job well. What is important to me is that my husband (whose name I took after thorough discussion and so that our family would all have the same name when we had children - we both had very long names so double-barrelling would have been very stupid!) and I were able to choose to do things whichever way seemed best for our family.

As it was, being the only one who could breastfeed, we decided I would stay at home and DH would remain the breadwinner. We both have important roles to play in our family and both roles are taken seriously by us both and by our children.

When I've stopped breastfeeding, there may come a time when it makes more sense for me to be doing the breadwinning, or for us to share the load.

But it has absolutely f-all to do with our sex, and everything to do with what makes the most sense for our family, and I would fight to have that choice remain and be respected - am I a feminist? Or an equalist? Or a libertarian?

I consider myself a feminist!

I am single, and work, and study for a degree (prefering feminist literature over all the rest of course ).

But I think being a 'feminist' is just about being able to do what the hell you like without being judged on the basis of your gender. Therefore if you want to be a pole dancer or prostitute and earn your money that way then why on earth NOT!!! That is female power surely (as long as it is through choice rather than being forced into that position for male gain), because no man could earn a living dancing around a pole...or do they??? Not something I would wish to pay to see anyway!

Of course their are wider debates about women throughout history being put in 'degrading' positions, but it is only degrading if the individual feels that way, and if there is an issue with men holding power over women.

Reporting in.