just something to share

[threeangels]

I know war has been a lot more on many minds lately. I found this sight and wanted to share it with anyone who is interested.

I also want to say that any mumsnetters who have any family members going to war along with everyone else in the world will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Are We Nearing the End Times?
Did you know all the signs Jesus said would signify His second coming are occurring in our time?
The Rev. Billy Graham, Pope John Paul II and numerous Orthodox Jewish rabbis have all said they believe that the coming of the Messiah is very near. Why? Because so many Bible prophecies are being fulfilled.

When Jesus' disciples asked what would signal His return, He gave them several signs to watch for. He also taught that the time immediately before His coming would be known as the "beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8), which in English means the "onset of labor pains."

Jesus was saying the signs of His coming would start out as mild pangs spaced widely apart like human labor and then gradually become closer together and more intense, like the birth process, until this seven-year period of suffering and judgment would culminate in the coming of the Messiah.

The Signs
Consider the signs that Jesus said would be the prelude to His return and notice how they've begun to occur in our time:

False Christs The past few decades have witnessed a huge upsurge in charismatic leaders claiming to be Christ or the Jewish Messiah, including the Moonies' Rev. Sun Moon, the Buddhist Dalai Lama, the Hindu Krishnamurti, and the Bahais' Baha Ullah, to name a few. Collectively, their followers number in the u millions. . Jesus replied to them, "See that none misleads you; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many." Matt. 24:4,5
War War in the original Greek of Matthew 24 is ethnos, meaning ethnic or racial war. A recent editorial in Time magazine reported there are presently 67 wars being fought around the planet and most of them are ethnic wars, including the recent slaughter in Rwanda and Bosnia. According to the National Defense Council Foundation, conflicts around the globe have doubled since 1989. "... you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars..." Matt. 24:6,7
Famine The LA Times reported recently that more than one billion people suffer from serious malnutrition, exacerbated in the past months by worldwide drought. More than 35 million people living mostly in the southern states of Africa suffer from acute hunger and are threatened with imminent death. "There will be famines..." Matt. 24:7.
Pestilence The rate of infectious diseases has increased 58% since 1980, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. Diseases once considered conquered are now reappearing, sometimes in drug-resistant forms. AIDS has become a worldwide scourge, and viral diseases such as Ebola pose an international threat because of transcontinental flight. "There will be pestilences." Matt. 24:7.
Earthquakes The number of dangerous earthquakes measuring 6.0 or greater on the Richter scale has been steadily increasing since the 1950s when there were nine. In the 1960s, there were 13. In the 1970s, 51. In the 1980s, 86. In the 1990s more than100 such serious earthquakes have already been recorded, according to the LA Herald Examiner. "There will be...earthquakes in various places." Matt. 24:7.
The Seas and Waves Roaring The Associated Press reports that the most recently completed Atlantic hurricane season produced 11 hurricanes, 8 tropical storms, and $7.7 billion in damage. Serious flooding has also occurred recently in the U.S., Russia, Japan, Mexico, China, Europe, Korea, and the United Kingdom, according to Barron's. "There will be bewilderment at the roaring of the sea and waves." Luke 21:25.
Great Signs in the Heavens The 1994 comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, a string of 21 space rocks that slammed into Jupiter with the power of thousands of nuclear explosions, could be a heavenly sign. Jupiter is the mythological king of the planets and in Christian symbolism it is a representation of Christ. The 21 explosions are reminiscent of the 21 judgments that will befall Earth during the seven-year period that ushers in the coming of the Messiah, according to the Book of Revelation. The comet Hyakutake has recently lit up the night sky, and what promises to be the spectacular comet Hale-Bopp, first sighted in 1995, is scheduled to come nearest to our sun in the spring of 1997. "Great signs shall there be from heaven." Luke 21:11.
Violence Since 1960 violent crime has increased in the U.S. by 560%, according to FBI statistics, and the number of reported cases of child abuse in the U.S. has risen from 670,000 in 1976 to nearly 3 million in the 1990s. Other nations are experiencing similar dramatic increases in violent crime, reports the San Francisco Chronicle. "...as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mt. 24:37. ("And God said unto Noah, '...the earth is filled with violence...'" Gen. 6:13.)
Gospel Preached to the Whole World Pope John Paul II has traveled to 70-plus nations during his pontificate, preaching the gospel to millions. The Rev. Billy Graham recently conducted a week-long crusade from Costa Rica translated into every language on the planet and broadcast via satellite around the globe. With Communism's collapse, Christian radio and TV are now reaching into almost every nook and cranny of planet Earth. "...and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world and then the end shall come." Mt. 24:14.
All of the signs that Jesus said would precede His return seem to be occurring in our time.

Other Prophecies Fulfilled
Other prophecies relating to this seven-year period of judgment, coming from many parts of the Bible, have also begun to be fulfilled:

Israel reborn as a nation in 1948 (Ezek. 4:3-6, Lev. 26:18)
Israel surrounded by hostile Arab countries (Psalm 83:4-8)
Jerusalem inhabited by the Jews (Luke 21:24)
Israel negotiates a peace treaty with her enemies (Daniel 9:27)
Doomsday weapons threaten earth (Joel 2:3)
Ecological devastation occurs (Rev. 11:18)
The Roman Empire revives as the European Union (Daniel 2:40-44)
Heresies become widespread (II Thess. 2:3)
Russia rises as a military power (Ezek. 38:1-12)
A hole in the ozone layer develops (Rev. 16:8.9)
TV communications are global (Revelation 11:9,10)
Satanic and cultic activity arises (I Tim. 4:1)
Sub-dermal microchips for identification purposes proposed by the U.S. military (Rev. 13:16,17)
Massive increases in wealth occur (Jas. 5:3)
GATT and World Trade Organization become possible forerunners of a world government (Rev. 13:7)
Asia possesses resources for a 200-million-man army (Rev. 9:14-16)
The Euphrates River can be dried up (Rev. 16:12-v 14) and a military highway linking Asia to the Middle East is being completed (Rev. 9:14)
Knowledge vastly increases (Dan. 12:4)
Russian and Ethiopian Jews return to Israel (Jer. 23:7,8; Zeph. 3:10)
The Hebrew language is recovered (Zeph. 3:9)
Jerusalem is rebuilt in nine specific directions (Jer. 31:38-40)
Levites and priests train for Temple service (Ezek. 43:14,15)
Israel's rainfall increases dramatically (Joel 2:23) and the country becomes fertile and blossoms (Isa. 27:6)
Men become more selfish, arrogant, abusive, ungrateful, fierce and treacherous (II Tim. 3:2,3)
Where We Fit In
Referring to these signs, Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." (Luke 21:24-28).

If we are approaching that seven-year period that precedes the second coming of Christ - and all the signs indicate we are - the Bible tells us those years of judgment upon the earth will be accompanied by untold human suffering.

But believers in Christ who have sincerely placed their trust in Him can be certain of the redemption to which Jesus referred, for He promised His followers that "God has not destined us for wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9).

So where does that leave you? Are you one of God's children who's been called to believe in His Son but has rejected each invitation? Where are you going to spend the seven years of God's wrath? And the rest of eternity?

Jesus told us that "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John. 3:16). But He went on to say that "...he who does not believe is already condemned because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God" (John. 3:18).

Is it too late for you to find salvation?
Not yet. God designed an "escape hatch" for us by offering His only Son to die a miserable death on a cross so that our sins could be blotted out in our Creator's sight and we could be reconciled to Him.

All we have to do is accept His Son as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. By doing this our loving Father promised that, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor heart imagined the wonderful things God has prepared for those who love Him" (1 Cor. 2:9).

Would you like to receive those "wonderful things" in the everlasting life Christ promised His followers? Do you want to know how to accept God's Son? It's simple. All you have to do is sincerely pray this prayer: "Lord Jesus, I know I'm a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I believe that you died for my sins and I want to turn away from my wrongdoing. Right now I'm inviting you to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You, making You my Lord and Savior. Amen."

What Next?
If you prayed this and meant it, you need to start talking to God through prayer, reading the Scriptures daily to get to know God better, and find a church where Christians like you worship Christ and where the good news of the Bible is being preached.

Remember, you are now Christ's representative to a needy world that appears to be embarking upon the period of unimaginable suffering that precedes Christ's second coming. You can help lead others to the Truth you've discovered and enable them to avoid the agony to come. Don't put this off. Today is the day of salvation. Tomorrow may be too late. God bless you on your journey.

If you would like to pursue a more in-depth study of Bible prophecy, books by Hal Lindsey, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, Peter LaLonde, and John Walvoord among others are available at most Christian bookstores.

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Other Christian Information Sites on the WWW:
ICL Net: Christian Literature on the Net
Bible Gateway
Christian Coalition Home Page
Jewish and Christian Links
Lions Den
Jack Van Impe Home Page
Zola Levitt Presents

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Email Duncan Long
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bloss/libby I am bowing out of this discussion as it's obvious to me that the argument is going into circular territory which I don't think is helpful. Thank you for a most interesting debate though

Bloss just a minor point though of which I think there's been some misunderstanding when I say "pick and choose" I am not comparing it to the liberal christian way (as a lot of liberal christians have come to their viewpoint from intense bible study and I do not want to denigrate their views at all). I would stress yet again that I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN - I am an eclectic pagan. I think hard about ethics and what is acceptable/not acceptable, I don't have a convenient (or not?!) book/church leader to tell me what I should do. I choose the ways most appropriate to me to praise/celebrate the divine. I don't claim to always do a good job of that, but neither do I expect others to follow the exact same path as me.

It does sadden me that whenever these type of discussions come up that those with differing viewpoints in the christian faith are then dismissed as not real or superficial christians. You say you are not, bloss, and then only a little further down your post you say "I agree that many people who CALL themselves Christians don't. But it doesn't take much scratching at the surface to realise with these people that they don't have any serious belief in Christ as their saviour, and they are simply adopting a Judeo-Christian moral code, and even that only in part." The implication being that conveniently anyone who doesn't fit in with the model that fits into *your" idea of christianity isn't actually a christian.

I hope that I have demonstrated that there is a range to christianity and hope that readers of this whole thread proves you don't need to switch off your brain to be religious or spiritual regardless of your chosen path

Georgina I believe the model for Christianity that bloss is talking about, is the one that is outlined in the New Testament. I don't think bloss is saying that everyone else's version of Christianity has to equate with her own, I think she's saying that the model for Christianity should equate with the one outlined by Jesus Christ. As you say, there appears to be a range of types of 'Christianity' these days, but that doesn't mean it is supposed to be that way. As Jesus said, "Why do you call me Lord but do not do what I say?". Many people profess to be Christians but do not display Christian behaviour... and this is not said to be condescending or judgmental towards anyone, I just believe it's a fact.

This argument truly is going around in circles! Feel like we've already been here before.

Hope you don't mind me jumping in there bloss.

bloss - if you read my messages you will see that I have already said that natural selection doesn't explain how the original lifeform(s) came into being. There are theories, but that's all they are theories. However once you have the original lifeform all you need to do is sit back and let natural selection do the rest.

I think the problem with discussing natural selection is that so many people totally misundertand it although they don't realise it. Mutations which provide variation are randon, natural selection is not. If it was it wouldn't work, and we would be into the relams of needing infinite possibilites, but with natural selection that need is removed.

And the problem with Gary Parker??? Well for starters the man doesn't seem to understand evolution. I think he subscribes to the "whirlwind in the junkyard assembling a beoing 747" school of thought as to why evolution can't be true. The problem with this is that it totaly misunderstands how evolution occurs- natural selection involves a series of small steps - and so you don't need whirlwinds in junkyards as described above. There have been a few articles written on this- in evolutionary terms- look up "hopeful monsters" and you'll find out why this is very unlikey (we're back to needing infinite universes).

Libby - And as for the fossil record. Yep it's crap. It's very difficult to be fossilised. Quite agree. It gets particularly confusing when someone like stephen jay gould (probably best known geologist) wades in a starts sounding like he's disagreeing with evolution (in fact he's not- he's applying geological timescales). Why do we have the same fossils for years and years - as you mentioned. Well this is known as punctuated equilibrium. Evolution by natural selection does not occur at a steady rate. For millions of years everything may be very stable, little change is seen -organisms do not evolve, they stay the same (the environment remains stable s this is what you would expect). Then suddenly something fairly major happens- an asteroid hits, the sea level drops- something changes- and suddenly you have a period where a lot of change is seen. Many extinctions may take place. The remaining organisms are subject to all sorts of selection pressures and a lot of change is seen- new species evolve (the species concept itself is very "fake"-natural selection applies to individuals). The last time this sort of change was seen was at the end of the ice age. Suddenly new habitats were available, and populations which had been separated met again. TBH punctuated equilibria etc is more of an argument about speciation than the way in which natural selection operates. However the arguments are complicated and mathematical and I can't really get into them here. For anyone interested read Evolutionary Biology by Douglas J Futuyma for a full discussion on speciation, evolution rates and the fossil record.

I'm not going to go thorugh each point as I havent got time. Interested in what you mean by plants appearing abruptly though? Plants had to come first - they're bottom of the food chain- without them animals can't exist. Do you mean angiosperms (flowering plants)? Their evolution is very tied in with the evolution of insects. The earliest angiosperms were insect pollinated and their diversification coincides with a massive increase in insect diversity. Now I'm no botanist (zoologist in fact) but if plants are being insect pollinated then of course a rapid diversifaction will coincide with that of insects.

TBH- modern evolutionary theory (neo-Darwinism as it is known), doesn't really depend much on fossils. Now evolution is looked at in terms of gene flow. The best person to read for the geological view is Stephen Jay Gould. His books are interesting and easy to read. For simple books on neo-Darwinism Richard Dawkins is probably the easiest read. His ex- student Matt Ridley also writes well.

Robinw that old "love the sinner, hate the sin" argument just seems to me to be a cover up for prejudice. It's similar to the view I hear from some of the BNP supporters who live round where I work who have black and asian friends, yet still want all asians and blacks to "go home" where ever that may be. Homosexuality, like being black, is NOT a lifestyle choice. You are born that way, presumably your god made them that way. Which just seems incredibly peverse, why make people homosexual then condemn it?

I don't believe that it is necessary to offer another value system to supplant Christianity. If you look at the major tenants of all religions they have thae same basic value system. Don't steal, don't kill, try to do unto others as you would have them do unto you (to paraphrase a 1st Century philosopher) I have no problem with this. It is self evident that these values help to make society run smoothly. You can be an athiest and have the same values as someone who believes in a god. The only difference is that I think long and hard about what I believe rather than reaching for some preformed opinion from a book. If you look at our legal system, laws are constantly changing and evolving because society evolves and changes. 150 years ago the law said that women had no legal rights over either themselves or their children. I'm sure you would agree that it is a good thing that this has changed. Relying solely (incidentally as the Jehova's Witnesses do) on the bible for moral guidance means your opinions are necessarily stuck in the mindset of a civilization 2000 years ago.

Incidentally bloss, you always refer to the time before you were a christian. What made you change your mind? Was there something that happened in your life, or was it a gradual process?

robinw - isn't a religion and a value system a bit different? And if so, how can I offer you an alternative?

I have no problem with most of the values of the judeo-christian society I live in and I suscribe to and commit to them. But that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe in god. And frankly, if everyone simply stopped believing, all together, I don't think anarcy would be the result.

There are good people, bad people, leaders and followers in every society. With time (sometimes a lot of time...), we find a value system that allows us to live together. More often than not, that value system has a religion attached to it, but not always the same religion by any means. I think that's man's doing, not god(' )s(' ).

Can't be arsed answering to be quite frank. To the best of my knowledge, there still is no concrete proof man came from apes, all the skeletons found so far have been fakes or inconclusive. DNA and genetics does not point conclusively to any link. Find me an official report that says differently and I will concede your point.

Slug - ok religion is soooooo dangerous and evil and vile, so you're ok then right? So why worry?

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well rhubarb we agree on one thing then- there is absolutely no point going on with this. There's loads of evidence for evolution and speciation. It can be seen occuring in bacteria really quite easily. Plenty of evidence for other organisms as well- many with much better fossil records than that of humans. If you see humans as being so different then fine apply a different set of rules to them. Ignore the existence of fossils such as the australopithecines. Ignore the evolution of amino acids, mitochondrial dna. Without inventing a time machine you aren't going to get it much clearer. If the dna evidence used to draw up the evolutionary trees is wrong then so is the evidence used to convict rapists and murderers as it uses the same principals.

Read anything by Richard Dawkins. He seems to have made it his life work to annoy creationists. Frankly I can't be bothered.

Jimjams - peace I can only go off what I know and genetics is not my speciality. But I do watch all the docus and was informed by them, that the race is still on to find the definitive ape-man skeleton. As far as DNA goes, well our DNA does not match apes does it? It does relate to them though? As a scientist, would this be proof enough? Would it stand up in a court of law or would you have to prove your case beyond any reasonable doubt?
I've wanted to quit this thread for ages now, but it keeps drawing me back. However I do need to take a break, no more internet for a while I think.
I do respect your views JimJams, I don't want you to think that, I just like playing devils advocate from time to time! Handshake?

yeah definite handshake- see my post on miseryguts for rather strange explanation of the tone of the previous post.

Our dna is very very very similar to chimps- frighteningly so. I used to have a poster that showed which chromosome arms in humans matched which in apes (basically our chromosomes are the same as a chimps but rearranged- within those chromosomes there are very small differences within the dna sequences which give all the differences between chimps and man). Having different chromosomes isn't that strange. For example the mice in John o Groats have a different number of chromosomes than the mice in the rest of the UK but they're the same species.

As for a court of law- who knows- is it beyond reasonable doubt? Who knows what a jury would decide.

Nothing wrong with devils advocate. I will leave the christian bashing to Richard Dawkins though - he seems to enjoy it. He's a great author but I'm less convinced about his personality. I've been told he's shy though so who knows.

Anyway ds2 still has something stuck in his gum. I've decided its probably hemp seed from his bread ( not drugs - I give hemp seeds for the essential fatty acids- it's not active stuff!) so I'm hoping it will just mush away.

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definitely agree that no-one knows how life began bloss. Interesting one.

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I'm a tax collector!

I'm a pagan

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does anyone know anything about the gospel of st thomas? apparently it wasn't included in the bible as the guy was a lunatic or something, but it's meant to be a bit different. i know nothing about it but a friend used to go on about it all the time. excuse lack of capitals- bfeeding baby

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