just something to share

[threeangels]

I know war has been a lot more on many minds lately. I found this sight and wanted to share it with anyone who is interested.

I also want to say that any mumsnetters who have any family members going to war along with everyone else in the world will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Are We Nearing the End Times?
Did you know all the signs Jesus said would signify His second coming are occurring in our time?
The Rev. Billy Graham, Pope John Paul II and numerous Orthodox Jewish rabbis have all said they believe that the coming of the Messiah is very near. Why? Because so many Bible prophecies are being fulfilled.

When Jesus' disciples asked what would signal His return, He gave them several signs to watch for. He also taught that the time immediately before His coming would be known as the "beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8), which in English means the "onset of labor pains."

Jesus was saying the signs of His coming would start out as mild pangs spaced widely apart like human labor and then gradually become closer together and more intense, like the birth process, until this seven-year period of suffering and judgment would culminate in the coming of the Messiah.

The Signs
Consider the signs that Jesus said would be the prelude to His return and notice how they've begun to occur in our time:

False Christs The past few decades have witnessed a huge upsurge in charismatic leaders claiming to be Christ or the Jewish Messiah, including the Moonies' Rev. Sun Moon, the Buddhist Dalai Lama, the Hindu Krishnamurti, and the Bahais' Baha Ullah, to name a few. Collectively, their followers number in the u millions. . Jesus replied to them, "See that none misleads you; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many." Matt. 24:4,5
War War in the original Greek of Matthew 24 is ethnos, meaning ethnic or racial war. A recent editorial in Time magazine reported there are presently 67 wars being fought around the planet and most of them are ethnic wars, including the recent slaughter in Rwanda and Bosnia. According to the National Defense Council Foundation, conflicts around the globe have doubled since 1989. "... you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars..." Matt. 24:6,7
Famine The LA Times reported recently that more than one billion people suffer from serious malnutrition, exacerbated in the past months by worldwide drought. More than 35 million people living mostly in the southern states of Africa suffer from acute hunger and are threatened with imminent death. "There will be famines..." Matt. 24:7.
Pestilence The rate of infectious diseases has increased 58% since 1980, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. Diseases once considered conquered are now reappearing, sometimes in drug-resistant forms. AIDS has become a worldwide scourge, and viral diseases such as Ebola pose an international threat because of transcontinental flight. "There will be pestilences." Matt. 24:7.
Earthquakes The number of dangerous earthquakes measuring 6.0 or greater on the Richter scale has been steadily increasing since the 1950s when there were nine. In the 1960s, there were 13. In the 1970s, 51. In the 1980s, 86. In the 1990s more than100 such serious earthquakes have already been recorded, according to the LA Herald Examiner. "There will be...earthquakes in various places." Matt. 24:7.
The Seas and Waves Roaring The Associated Press reports that the most recently completed Atlantic hurricane season produced 11 hurricanes, 8 tropical storms, and $7.7 billion in damage. Serious flooding has also occurred recently in the U.S., Russia, Japan, Mexico, China, Europe, Korea, and the United Kingdom, according to Barron's. "There will be bewilderment at the roaring of the sea and waves." Luke 21:25.
Great Signs in the Heavens The 1994 comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, a string of 21 space rocks that slammed into Jupiter with the power of thousands of nuclear explosions, could be a heavenly sign. Jupiter is the mythological king of the planets and in Christian symbolism it is a representation of Christ. The 21 explosions are reminiscent of the 21 judgments that will befall Earth during the seven-year period that ushers in the coming of the Messiah, according to the Book of Revelation. The comet Hyakutake has recently lit up the night sky, and what promises to be the spectacular comet Hale-Bopp, first sighted in 1995, is scheduled to come nearest to our sun in the spring of 1997. "Great signs shall there be from heaven." Luke 21:11.
Violence Since 1960 violent crime has increased in the U.S. by 560%, according to FBI statistics, and the number of reported cases of child abuse in the U.S. has risen from 670,000 in 1976 to nearly 3 million in the 1990s. Other nations are experiencing similar dramatic increases in violent crime, reports the San Francisco Chronicle. "...as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mt. 24:37. ("And God said unto Noah, '...the earth is filled with violence...'" Gen. 6:13.)
Gospel Preached to the Whole World Pope John Paul II has traveled to 70-plus nations during his pontificate, preaching the gospel to millions. The Rev. Billy Graham recently conducted a week-long crusade from Costa Rica translated into every language on the planet and broadcast via satellite around the globe. With Communism's collapse, Christian radio and TV are now reaching into almost every nook and cranny of planet Earth. "...and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world and then the end shall come." Mt. 24:14.
All of the signs that Jesus said would precede His return seem to be occurring in our time.

Other Prophecies Fulfilled
Other prophecies relating to this seven-year period of judgment, coming from many parts of the Bible, have also begun to be fulfilled:

Israel reborn as a nation in 1948 (Ezek. 4:3-6, Lev. 26:18)
Israel surrounded by hostile Arab countries (Psalm 83:4-8)
Jerusalem inhabited by the Jews (Luke 21:24)
Israel negotiates a peace treaty with her enemies (Daniel 9:27)
Doomsday weapons threaten earth (Joel 2:3)
Ecological devastation occurs (Rev. 11:18)
The Roman Empire revives as the European Union (Daniel 2:40-44)
Heresies become widespread (II Thess. 2:3)
Russia rises as a military power (Ezek. 38:1-12)
A hole in the ozone layer develops (Rev. 16:8.9)
TV communications are global (Revelation 11:9,10)
Satanic and cultic activity arises (I Tim. 4:1)
Sub-dermal microchips for identification purposes proposed by the U.S. military (Rev. 13:16,17)
Massive increases in wealth occur (Jas. 5:3)
GATT and World Trade Organization become possible forerunners of a world government (Rev. 13:7)
Asia possesses resources for a 200-million-man army (Rev. 9:14-16)
The Euphrates River can be dried up (Rev. 16:12-v 14) and a military highway linking Asia to the Middle East is being completed (Rev. 9:14)
Knowledge vastly increases (Dan. 12:4)
Russian and Ethiopian Jews return to Israel (Jer. 23:7,8; Zeph. 3:10)
The Hebrew language is recovered (Zeph. 3:9)
Jerusalem is rebuilt in nine specific directions (Jer. 31:38-40)
Levites and priests train for Temple service (Ezek. 43:14,15)
Israel's rainfall increases dramatically (Joel 2:23) and the country becomes fertile and blossoms (Isa. 27:6)
Men become more selfish, arrogant, abusive, ungrateful, fierce and treacherous (II Tim. 3:2,3)
Where We Fit In
Referring to these signs, Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." (Luke 21:24-28).

If we are approaching that seven-year period that precedes the second coming of Christ - and all the signs indicate we are - the Bible tells us those years of judgment upon the earth will be accompanied by untold human suffering.

But believers in Christ who have sincerely placed their trust in Him can be certain of the redemption to which Jesus referred, for He promised His followers that "God has not destined us for wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9).

So where does that leave you? Are you one of God's children who's been called to believe in His Son but has rejected each invitation? Where are you going to spend the seven years of God's wrath? And the rest of eternity?

Jesus told us that "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John. 3:16). But He went on to say that "...he who does not believe is already condemned because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God" (John. 3:18).

Is it too late for you to find salvation?
Not yet. God designed an "escape hatch" for us by offering His only Son to die a miserable death on a cross so that our sins could be blotted out in our Creator's sight and we could be reconciled to Him.

All we have to do is accept His Son as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. By doing this our loving Father promised that, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor heart imagined the wonderful things God has prepared for those who love Him" (1 Cor. 2:9).

Would you like to receive those "wonderful things" in the everlasting life Christ promised His followers? Do you want to know how to accept God's Son? It's simple. All you have to do is sincerely pray this prayer: "Lord Jesus, I know I'm a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I believe that you died for my sins and I want to turn away from my wrongdoing. Right now I'm inviting you to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You, making You my Lord and Savior. Amen."

What Next?
If you prayed this and meant it, you need to start talking to God through prayer, reading the Scriptures daily to get to know God better, and find a church where Christians like you worship Christ and where the good news of the Bible is being preached.

Remember, you are now Christ's representative to a needy world that appears to be embarking upon the period of unimaginable suffering that precedes Christ's second coming. You can help lead others to the Truth you've discovered and enable them to avoid the agony to come. Don't put this off. Today is the day of salvation. Tomorrow may be too late. God bless you on your journey.

If you would like to pursue a more in-depth study of Bible prophecy, books by Hal Lindsey, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, Peter LaLonde, and John Walvoord among others are available at most Christian bookstores.

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Other Christian Information Sites on the WWW:
ICL Net: Christian Literature on the Net
Bible Gateway
Christian Coalition Home Page
Jewish and Christian Links
Lions Den
Jack Van Impe Home Page
Zola Levitt Presents

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NO slug that is not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that some people pick and choose the parts of Christianity that they want, and they throw away the rest like it isn't relevant. There is no arrogance in that. I'm simply saying why profess to adhere to Christian principles if you're not going to embrace the whole thing? A lot of harm has been done by people who profess to be Christians and their actions say otherwise. They don't have any real comprehension of what it really means.

Sorry Libby - but by that very statement you are implying liberal Christians are not "real" Christians.

Maybe they're not "picking and choosing" maybe they are just interpreting things a little more differently than you? There are many parts of the bible that vary quite differently in interpretation comparing different translations, let alone when you go to the original context of that society.

Remember the section about "He who is without sin..."? I think having gay clergy is way down on the list personally, and it should be up to their own consciences not down to you.

This would be the "unambigious message" then

Why is it that atheists are always on the attack? If you are so happy with your lives and your beliefs (or lack of them) why are you so quick to criticise others? This is namely directed towards Slug by the way. Time and time again you have compared a belief in God to a belief in fairies, and now teapots that circle the earth! My dear, this is very patronising and I cannot see that anyone on here has made any such comments about you and your beliefs.

The evidence for God is all around you, if you want to put that down to the 'big bang' then so be it. There was a programme on the other night called 'The Woman with the Mysterious Brain', it proves that very often nature baffles science and still does, the way it works is complicated and intricate. To my mind this speaks of a higher intelligence behind it all, the way everything works in harmony cannot be explained by a big bang, and scientists know this. No-one knows how the universe began, your guess is as good as mine. But if I say that I believe in the men who wrote the Bible, that I believe in a higher intelligence, then I expect those beliefs to be respected as much as I respect your right not to believe. And how come God seems to be standing trial here by people who do not even believe in him? There is no point arguing about free will and points of the Bible if you do not believe in a God in the first place. Therefore this thread achieves nothing really, but ultimately results in a slanging match between atheists and Christians.

Bloss, I would like to hear your verdict of the Matthew quote when you have time. I have picked up on homosexuality because you seem to mention it in almost all your posts, that's why I thought they were being singled out. After all, I get accused of being a homophobe almost all the time because I am a Christian, so I just wanted to set the record straight that Jesus was not a homophobe and would not have tolerated such stereotypes.

There, now I'll just go and talk the fairies at the bottom of my garden shall I?

Oh no, I so didn't want to post on this thread but I can't resist the bait.

Libby, I'm a confirmed pick-and-choose Catholic. I find it absolutely impossible to live by every word of the bible. There is so much contradiction and downright misogyny in that book that I defy anyone in this day and age to live according to every rule and law and example.

I believe in God and his Son, Jesus Christ. I believe in loving your neighbour and I try VERY HARD not to judge people. You can believe anything you want but please people stop slagging off the fairies both real and imaginary!!

Don't think its really fair to say atheists (or even just slug) are always on the attack. Slug is debating something she studied, and obvioulsy knows a lot about. In the same way as if the conversation strays into evolution I'll join in (I'm an atheist), as it's something I know a lot about and can therefore debate.

I think originally my point was that religious people (not only Christians) seems to believe that they have a monoploy on the truth. I am expected to conform to christian morality, even though I am not a Christian. By this I mean that most of our laws are based on Christian morality. For example the defeat of the lowering of the age of consent for homosexuals in the House of Lords was based mainly on religious objections. And let's not even raise the spectre of Section 28.

Whenever I point out that religions have been used to justify all manner of wars and oppression over the centuries, I am shouted down by those who seem to think that their version of truth is the real one, that their god is all about love and all others have got this apparantly unambigious message wrong. I cannot walk down the street without being accosted by people telling me I MUST believe the way they do or else terrible things will happen to me.

I just think that appart from having no logical basis, religions are dangerous. I could give many examples such as Northern Ireland, the Middle East (would there be a Jewish state if there was no such things as Jews?), but I prefer to give you an example closer to home.

My dh works in a children's hospital. On average once a month he will get a child in with a Pakastini or Bengali surname. This child will have multiple problems and, after testing, it will emerge that they have AIDS. Now where did the child get this from? They test the mother and find that she is HIV positive. The mother has never indulged in risky behaviours, so the infection is traced back to the father. It turns out that he has been having sex, secretly, with men. Now as my students are always telling me there is no such thing as a gay muslim.

Religion in this case is used to suppress information about safe sex. Why spread the safe sex message when no muslim is gay? Consequently these men have no access to information or condoms as they live in an area where all the shopkeepers are of the same faith, so buying them would immediatly set the rumour mill rolling.

These men are killing their entire families through ignorance. This ignorance is propogated and encouraged by religious belief. Tell me that isn't tragic and dangerous? Why on earth should I respect this?

If you remove religion from the equation, you remove the labels that allowed Hitler, Iain Paisley and Ariel Sharon to operate.

Why am I quick to criticise? I think we've been silent too long out of misplaced respect. Every time an IRA bomb goes off, every time there is a riot in Gujerat, every time moslems slaughter Christians in Nigeria, do we stand by and think it's OK because the justification given for this slaughter is valid? Did you not watch people jumping out of the twin towers before they collapsed and think why on earth do we allow this twisted thinking to hold such sway over humans?

libby - the definition of "christian principles" would change any "real comprehension". some of us have different interpretations - as we have shown- it doesnt make us any less of a christian - or make your particular version of christianity right either, this backs up slugs argument about christians only having their version and about us being closed minded. i hope that some of us christians have enlightened you a little - we are not all the same and dont all have the same opinion or interpretation.

at the same time i dont want to feel guilty for being christian, sometimes i feel many christians zealousness ( is that a word?) spoil it for the rest of us in everyday life.

now you can believe in jesus - be a good person - but cannot be gay, watch porn, you cant swear ( be crass even) and attend church, cathlolic and attend an ann summers party ? heaven help us all - my word a christian with a vibrator - good lord as if using contraception want bad enough
my word a christian who even says vibrator - am damned to the depths of hell.
what about a christian who like s&M? - al those toys, racks, torture - non of it for procreating purposes - maybe they have a joint occasionally. then maybe they volunteer down the cancer hospital before feeding all the abandoned dogs at the NCDL - maybe they visit old people and bring a ray of sunshine.
how does god work this out............ who the hell knows - but its up to Her to work it out not us to judge

Jesus outlines in the New Testament what true Christian principles are. The only way anyone can find out what they are, is by reading what he says. I bet a lot of people don't even know what's in there, because they've never taken the time to look.

Nerdgirl, I don't think Libby was talking about living by every word of the bible, she was referring to Christian doctrine, which relates only to the New Testament. I think people are becoming a little unfair in their responses.

Georgina with regard to gay clergy, it is one thing to refer to "he who is without sin cast the first stone", but the New Testament even gives a list of criteria for anyone who takes on a responsible position in the church. Because that person is in such an influential position, the NT outlines the type of person they should be. It's not up to just anyone to take on a position of power in the church.

Exactly mum2toby and this is why others can't judge - it's up to the church leaders and the individual in question to decide.

How about if said gay clergyman was celebate and had many other qualities you would want in a leadership role? Or would you just ban him or her in principle due to your own prejudices? This is the problem with sweeping blanket bans like this, there is no thought to the individual situation or what would be appropriate. In a more liberal christian church even celebacy wouldn't be necessary to ask of their gay clergy as homosexuality isn't seen as big an issue as other churches.

What do you think about heterosexual clergy and the sex scandals that they get caught up in? Is that then okay and appropriate because they're heterosexual?! These sort of hypocrasies really frustrate me. I think many of the Christian Church need to practise some of that forgiveness and acceptance Jesus preached so much about.

Also it isn't unfair to expect the old testament to be taken into account as well. Christians believe the whole bible to be the word of God so the whole bible should be relevant in the discussion. The New Testament has many direct quotes to the Old Testament and it is still considered scripture. I don't think it's unreasonable to look at both Old and New Testaments - otherwise surely you're just "picking and choosing" which seems to be a heinous crime in some people's eyes.

(I for one am all for picking and choosing... not to make life easier for myself, but because it becomes more a matter of conscious and you actually think hard about what you believe and it becomes a greater part of you).

Um.... conscience not conscious... but then you realised that, didn't you?

Georgina, if you're all for what Jesus preached, then you would know he wasn't a "liberal Christian" - yes he preached love and forgiveness and did some wonderful things, but he also specifically outlined things that he considered to be sinful, and spoke about the kind of behaviour that a follower of his should exhibit. If you read the NT, you would see that he laid down some very definite guidelines. If someone does not want to follow those guidelines, that is entirely up to them, but all I'm saying is that these days, people just take the Christian doctrine and do what they like with it.

And - I have to agree with slug's comment that Islam is indeed tragic and dangerous - and a very definite example of religion gone wrong. Even Jesus preached against religious oppression, because Christianity is not about oppression at all - he condemned the religious leaders who were hypocrites and treated their people without love or respect. Unfortunately Christianity's ideals have been sadly distorted over the years.

mum2toby, I am not all for what Jesus preached - I am not a christian That doesn't mean I don't agree with lots of things he said.

He acted very tolerantly - he spoke to women (which would have been a big no no in that culture) and treated them like equals, an awful lot of his heavy handed speeches were directed at Pharasees - a religious sect who stuck to the very letter of the law - and proved that even though they thought they were good even they couldn't stick to the law.

In fact, Jesus himself didn't stick to the Law (as that was the Pharasee's main accusations against him) yet was still considered a blameless person. Jesus effectively turned the Law into: Love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and love your neighbour like yourself. A much more positive approach than all the "thou should not"s.

Ask yourself this, just who is a committed homosexual relationship harming if there is only one partner for life? No-one. Adultery harms someone else, premarital sex has the potential to harm someone else, etc.

Jesus didn't even mention homosexuality.

And some people seem to think "liberal Christian" is a dirty word. I don't (although there are good and bad liberal christians as there are anywhere else).

I have a whole lot more respect for people who just get on with it and live what they believe and show the world through their actions than those who stand on street corners, disapprove of everything anyone else is doing, and shoving tracts up my nose at every opportunity...

Oi mum2boy, I was referring to ALL religions when I said they were tragic and dangerous, not just Islam. In my opinion Iain Paisly is just as dangerous as Osama Bin Laden.

A few hundred years ago Christianity was as oppressive as Islam can be today (think Spanish Inquisition, burning people for witchcraft etc etc). Any religion has the potential to be oppressive in the wrong hands.

I am really shocked that someone can on here can dismiss a religion many millions of people, each with their own interpretations and personal views, believe in as 'tragic and dangerous' and a 'religion gone wrong'. Mum2boy, please consider what you are saying and consider asking to have that comment deleted.

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I do not believe that religion is inherently dangerous, but extreme fundamentalism in any faith does make me nervous - especially coupled with a "one true way/my way" outlook which most seem to have.

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I don't think anyone objects to statements such 'as love thy neighbour etc' but I think many object to the view that these are 'Christian' views and that Christians have the monopoly on good behaviour. It is in the interest of most societies to treat each other with respect, goodness is common sense with little, if anything, to do with belief in god.

Still not clear why a belief system is required, intelligence tells me it is better not to p* people off by murdering them, stealing from them etc. Maybe that's my belief system, would have thought it was anyone's to be honest unless you have to be coaxed/bribed into good behaviour by the threat of some divine retribution/punishment.

Oh for Heaven's sake! ('scuse the pun!), talk about going around in circles! Slug, you made your point about religion being dangerous right at the start of the thread and you got some very good answers - are you hoping those same people will not answer you this time? Are you that stuck for arguments that you have to rehash old ones again? I'll bet that at some point in your life you will be helped by a Christian organisation. How can anyone say that a world without religion would be better off? A world without man maybe! How come some people are still content to blame religion instead of man's failings? Honey, even if religion were banned, there would still be the bigots, and the cruelty, and the wickedness. The IRA would still have blown people up, only they would have used a different excuse!

And who mentioned evolution? Now there's a good one! The theory of evolution is just that, a theory. The missing link between man and ape has still not been found, and yet it is universally accepted that man evolved from apes - where is your concrete evidence of that? You have no more evidence of man's link with apes than I have of the existence of God, so please let's cut out the crap about believing in fairies shall we?

Let me tell you a story. A friend of mine is a lapsed Catholic with a chip on his shoulder. He is forever debating with me the relevance of organised religion and he wastes no time in slagging off Catholics especially, he thinks we're all brainwashed. Yet every Easter, and this one will be no exception, he goes to a country retreat run by Catholic Monks. He stays in their rooms, eats their food and drinks their wine. He and his mate often go out in the evening and return absolutely p*ed! His mate sometimes takes a girl back. At the end of the retreat guests are asked to make a donation of however much they can afford, which helps towards the running of the place (which is normally used as a holiday base for children with special needs, pensioners and the mentally ill). My friend doesn't believe in giving the Catholics any money so he just bungs a couple of quid in. Now that is hypocritical and this is what I see all around me. People are very quick to criticise religion, but more than happy to take from them given half the chance.

Now that this thread seems to be going round in circles, I'll leave you lot to stereotype and I'm sure Custdy can defend the faith!