just something to share

[threeangels]

I know war has been a lot more on many minds lately. I found this sight and wanted to share it with anyone who is interested.

I also want to say that any mumsnetters who have any family members going to war along with everyone else in the world will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Are We Nearing the End Times?
Did you know all the signs Jesus said would signify His second coming are occurring in our time?
The Rev. Billy Graham, Pope John Paul II and numerous Orthodox Jewish rabbis have all said they believe that the coming of the Messiah is very near. Why? Because so many Bible prophecies are being fulfilled.

When Jesus' disciples asked what would signal His return, He gave them several signs to watch for. He also taught that the time immediately before His coming would be known as the "beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8), which in English means the "onset of labor pains."

Jesus was saying the signs of His coming would start out as mild pangs spaced widely apart like human labor and then gradually become closer together and more intense, like the birth process, until this seven-year period of suffering and judgment would culminate in the coming of the Messiah.

The Signs
Consider the signs that Jesus said would be the prelude to His return and notice how they've begun to occur in our time:

False Christs The past few decades have witnessed a huge upsurge in charismatic leaders claiming to be Christ or the Jewish Messiah, including the Moonies' Rev. Sun Moon, the Buddhist Dalai Lama, the Hindu Krishnamurti, and the Bahais' Baha Ullah, to name a few. Collectively, their followers number in the u millions. . Jesus replied to them, "See that none misleads you; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many." Matt. 24:4,5
War War in the original Greek of Matthew 24 is ethnos, meaning ethnic or racial war. A recent editorial in Time magazine reported there are presently 67 wars being fought around the planet and most of them are ethnic wars, including the recent slaughter in Rwanda and Bosnia. According to the National Defense Council Foundation, conflicts around the globe have doubled since 1989. "... you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars..." Matt. 24:6,7
Famine The LA Times reported recently that more than one billion people suffer from serious malnutrition, exacerbated in the past months by worldwide drought. More than 35 million people living mostly in the southern states of Africa suffer from acute hunger and are threatened with imminent death. "There will be famines..." Matt. 24:7.
Pestilence The rate of infectious diseases has increased 58% since 1980, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. Diseases once considered conquered are now reappearing, sometimes in drug-resistant forms. AIDS has become a worldwide scourge, and viral diseases such as Ebola pose an international threat because of transcontinental flight. "There will be pestilences." Matt. 24:7.
Earthquakes The number of dangerous earthquakes measuring 6.0 or greater on the Richter scale has been steadily increasing since the 1950s when there were nine. In the 1960s, there were 13. In the 1970s, 51. In the 1980s, 86. In the 1990s more than100 such serious earthquakes have already been recorded, according to the LA Herald Examiner. "There will be...earthquakes in various places." Matt. 24:7.
The Seas and Waves Roaring The Associated Press reports that the most recently completed Atlantic hurricane season produced 11 hurricanes, 8 tropical storms, and $7.7 billion in damage. Serious flooding has also occurred recently in the U.S., Russia, Japan, Mexico, China, Europe, Korea, and the United Kingdom, according to Barron's. "There will be bewilderment at the roaring of the sea and waves." Luke 21:25.
Great Signs in the Heavens The 1994 comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, a string of 21 space rocks that slammed into Jupiter with the power of thousands of nuclear explosions, could be a heavenly sign. Jupiter is the mythological king of the planets and in Christian symbolism it is a representation of Christ. The 21 explosions are reminiscent of the 21 judgments that will befall Earth during the seven-year period that ushers in the coming of the Messiah, according to the Book of Revelation. The comet Hyakutake has recently lit up the night sky, and what promises to be the spectacular comet Hale-Bopp, first sighted in 1995, is scheduled to come nearest to our sun in the spring of 1997. "Great signs shall there be from heaven." Luke 21:11.
Violence Since 1960 violent crime has increased in the U.S. by 560%, according to FBI statistics, and the number of reported cases of child abuse in the U.S. has risen from 670,000 in 1976 to nearly 3 million in the 1990s. Other nations are experiencing similar dramatic increases in violent crime, reports the San Francisco Chronicle. "...as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mt. 24:37. ("And God said unto Noah, '...the earth is filled with violence...'" Gen. 6:13.)
Gospel Preached to the Whole World Pope John Paul II has traveled to 70-plus nations during his pontificate, preaching the gospel to millions. The Rev. Billy Graham recently conducted a week-long crusade from Costa Rica translated into every language on the planet and broadcast via satellite around the globe. With Communism's collapse, Christian radio and TV are now reaching into almost every nook and cranny of planet Earth. "...and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world and then the end shall come." Mt. 24:14.
All of the signs that Jesus said would precede His return seem to be occurring in our time.

Other Prophecies Fulfilled
Other prophecies relating to this seven-year period of judgment, coming from many parts of the Bible, have also begun to be fulfilled:

Israel reborn as a nation in 1948 (Ezek. 4:3-6, Lev. 26:18)
Israel surrounded by hostile Arab countries (Psalm 83:4-8)
Jerusalem inhabited by the Jews (Luke 21:24)
Israel negotiates a peace treaty with her enemies (Daniel 9:27)
Doomsday weapons threaten earth (Joel 2:3)
Ecological devastation occurs (Rev. 11:18)
The Roman Empire revives as the European Union (Daniel 2:40-44)
Heresies become widespread (II Thess. 2:3)
Russia rises as a military power (Ezek. 38:1-12)
A hole in the ozone layer develops (Rev. 16:8.9)
TV communications are global (Revelation 11:9,10)
Satanic and cultic activity arises (I Tim. 4:1)
Sub-dermal microchips for identification purposes proposed by the U.S. military (Rev. 13:16,17)
Massive increases in wealth occur (Jas. 5:3)
GATT and World Trade Organization become possible forerunners of a world government (Rev. 13:7)
Asia possesses resources for a 200-million-man army (Rev. 9:14-16)
The Euphrates River can be dried up (Rev. 16:12-v 14) and a military highway linking Asia to the Middle East is being completed (Rev. 9:14)
Knowledge vastly increases (Dan. 12:4)
Russian and Ethiopian Jews return to Israel (Jer. 23:7,8; Zeph. 3:10)
The Hebrew language is recovered (Zeph. 3:9)
Jerusalem is rebuilt in nine specific directions (Jer. 31:38-40)
Levites and priests train for Temple service (Ezek. 43:14,15)
Israel's rainfall increases dramatically (Joel 2:23) and the country becomes fertile and blossoms (Isa. 27:6)
Men become more selfish, arrogant, abusive, ungrateful, fierce and treacherous (II Tim. 3:2,3)
Where We Fit In
Referring to these signs, Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." (Luke 21:24-28).

If we are approaching that seven-year period that precedes the second coming of Christ - and all the signs indicate we are - the Bible tells us those years of judgment upon the earth will be accompanied by untold human suffering.

But believers in Christ who have sincerely placed their trust in Him can be certain of the redemption to which Jesus referred, for He promised His followers that "God has not destined us for wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9).

So where does that leave you? Are you one of God's children who's been called to believe in His Son but has rejected each invitation? Where are you going to spend the seven years of God's wrath? And the rest of eternity?

Jesus told us that "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John. 3:16). But He went on to say that "...he who does not believe is already condemned because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God" (John. 3:18).

Is it too late for you to find salvation?
Not yet. God designed an "escape hatch" for us by offering His only Son to die a miserable death on a cross so that our sins could be blotted out in our Creator's sight and we could be reconciled to Him.

All we have to do is accept His Son as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. By doing this our loving Father promised that, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor heart imagined the wonderful things God has prepared for those who love Him" (1 Cor. 2:9).

Would you like to receive those "wonderful things" in the everlasting life Christ promised His followers? Do you want to know how to accept God's Son? It's simple. All you have to do is sincerely pray this prayer: "Lord Jesus, I know I'm a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I believe that you died for my sins and I want to turn away from my wrongdoing. Right now I'm inviting you to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You, making You my Lord and Savior. Amen."

What Next?
If you prayed this and meant it, you need to start talking to God through prayer, reading the Scriptures daily to get to know God better, and find a church where Christians like you worship Christ and where the good news of the Bible is being preached.

Remember, you are now Christ's representative to a needy world that appears to be embarking upon the period of unimaginable suffering that precedes Christ's second coming. You can help lead others to the Truth you've discovered and enable them to avoid the agony to come. Don't put this off. Today is the day of salvation. Tomorrow may be too late. God bless you on your journey.

If you would like to pursue a more in-depth study of Bible prophecy, books by Hal Lindsey, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, Peter LaLonde, and John Walvoord among others are available at most Christian bookstores.

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Other Christian Information Sites on the WWW:
ICL Net: Christian Literature on the Net
Bible Gateway
Christian Coalition Home Page
Jewish and Christian Links
Lions Den
Jack Van Impe Home Page
Zola Levitt Presents

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Email Duncan Long
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No idea Bloss, I've lost track

Um, I think it was something to do with if you obey the old testament laws banning homosexual activity then you should also obey the other laws in the old testament, like putting your kids to death if they hit you Am going to have another look at some of the bizarre orders in Leviticus around the passages you mentioned just for fun...

... oh I so need to get a life

But bloss that's the whole point they don't spontaneously appear. They evolve by small changes. The mutations producing the variation is random, but natural selection itself is far from random. Without natural selection then you're right the chances of producing a highly adapted lifefrom are pretty remote, but with natural selection it becomes almost easy.

You only have to look at "flaws" to see that we haven't been created by some great being- eg retina the wrong way round- light sensitive cells are behind a layer of nerve cells, men's nipples etc etc.

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bloss - I'm just saying that the argument about it being "highly unlikely" is wrong, because once you introduce natural selection it is no longer highly unlikely. You don't need to introduce infinite numbers or whatever because natural selection is not random.

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bloss just reread my post on that - it wasn't punctuated very well - it was due to their treatment of the poor and the rape NOT just due to the bad treatment of the poor bit.

Ezekiel 16:49 "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

(that was the NIV version btw)

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Bloss, the reference I gave for Matthew should be 19:11,12 - I do apologise. You say that God disagrees with homosexual sex, well he also disagrees with lustful thinking, sex before marriage and a whole load of other sex issues, so before we criticise gays I just think we should stop to criticise ourselves as we are all guilty of at least one form of sexual sin I'm sure. I would not single out gays for criticism, as you appeared to do so.

Your posts are thoughtful and interesting but as Custdy pointed out, they are your views and interpretation of the Bible, which may be different to someone else's but no more right than their interpretations.

I'm too tired for any other discussions, but will pop in again later.

Ahh bloss, I did not say you are stupid. Obviously you are intelligent, educated and eruidite. However, call me an old academic, but surely the validity of the source material has an impact on all subsequent scolarship. Now the Quran, for example, has remained in it's original Arabic throughout it's entire existence. In addition to that, any anecdotes of the prophet (hadith) have a list of who the prophet said it to, and who they repeated it to until such time as it was written down. Still a game of Chinese whispers, but one with a proveable history. And given that Jesus spoke Aramic, and the gospels were originally thought to be written in Greek (not Hebrew) that's at least one translation that they've gone through already.

I'm not sure why you think there is no strong evidence to the contrary when it comes to religion. What evidence is there to prove it's true? A feeling you have that the world's so big and clever that it must have been made by someone else? I find faith such a nebubous concept. It seems to me to be a cover up for for things that can't be explained, I agree with tinker in that respect.

I also agree with tinker in that discussions about the bible are distracting from the central point. A belief in Christianity must necessarily be prefaced by a belief in God. I see no evidence for the existence of a God. Are you suggesting that I should just take the existence of god on "faith"? If so, what's to stop me believing in fairies? or (to take a Bertrand Russel analogy) on the existence of a teapot circling the sun? If so I'd rater worship a teapot, because at least teapot worshipers who put the milk in forst don't kill those who put it in second in the name of the teapot.

IF god exists, why can't he give an unambigious message. Or here's one "Thou shalt not kill". How often has that one been followed? Not long ago you could be burnt at the stake for not believing in a certain type of god. How does that tally with the no kill law? In the USA, indeed in Geroge W's state, the state kills, frequently. Yet as govenor, this avowed Christian put more people to death than any previous govenor. How is this following gods law? The hypocracy of Christians is truly amazing.

So in these days of war and descrution does your god give an unambigous message to his people who have obviously forgotten the last message? No? Why not, there is mass communication these days. Or if he is indeed omnipotent, he could stop the world from turning and point out the message again. You could get into a convoluted argument about free will, or you could go for the simpler explanation. GOD DOES NOT EXIST.

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By the way, not sure if this is of use to anyone but a nice little online concordance is Bible Gateway - you can also view verses in lots of different versions which is quite handy as sometimes changing translation makes a huge difference to interpretation!

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Bloss there is also the implication that God intended it to be an ambiguous message - this was deliberate:

"He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"" [Mark 4:11-12]

Hmm, doesn't sound likes he wants people to follow him, does it

So, let me get this right...

God was such a good friend to us that he killed and abandoned part of himself to take the punishment for our sins.

But he can't be bothered to remind us what a sin actually is and instead tells us to look at the information he gave us before.

And this is because he is so good he can't bear to have anything to do with us because we sin.

But as long as we believe in him, he's happy to live with us after we die (after giving us a good telling off first).

But that's crazy! Why would you want to believe is that?!

Why if the message is so important does he make it so ambigious? It just makes no sense at all! Just witness all the differing interpretations from the christians on this thread. If you all believe but still can't agree, I think that qualifies as ambigious. Or perhaps you claim to have the one true interpretation? Or is that arrogant thinking?

Are you suggesting that in order to be a christian you don't necessarily need to start with a faith in god? That would explain the church of England I suppose.

Mary Queen of Scots, George W Bush, The September 11 terrorists, the whole of the Northern Ireland debacle, all these have killed great numbers using religion as a justification for some or part of their murder. It's a spurious argument to say Hitler was an athiest and killed millions whereas George W is responsible for the death of thousands but is a Chrisitan so has justification. I'm sure Pol Pot in his twisted way believed he was working for the greater good of his country ans he murdered the millions in the killing fields. And lets not forget it was the athiest communist Vietnamese who stopped that slaughter not the Christian Americans.

Which version says thou shalt not murder? That must be the original Aramic then, I've always seen it written as thou shalt not kill. Another problem with translation I suppose.

And finally, can I say sorry for my less than polite comments. I blame a migraine, serious drugs and petulant students for my lack of humour today.

bloss, that argument about Hitler being an athiest is wrong I'm afraid. He never renounced his Catholicism. True, the man was a lunatic, but he used Christianity to justify the destruction of the Jews.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me t the man who once in lonliness, surrounded by only a few followers, recognizes these Jews for what ther were and summoned men to the fight anainst them and who, Gods Truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in his might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with the deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly htan ever before - the fact that is was for this that he had to shed his blood upon the cross. as a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago - a civilization which was driven to it's ruin through this same Jewish people."

Adolph Hitler, speech 1922, Munich (Speeches of Hitler April 1922-August 1939. Norman H Baynes ed)

Lets not also forget the countless thousands who died in Africa, Asia and South America as the USA waged it's proxy wars to stop the spread of the "godless" communism. Or does allowing people to starve not count as murder?

Not true slug - there are many documents from Hitler which show that he used religion for his own ends (he believed it helped control the people) and that he didn't believe in it himself. Can't remember the exact texts but is probably available on an internet search.

(hmm... and does this thread now mean we can invoke Godwin's Law? )

Okay ... this wasn't the original thing I remember reading but covers the same sort of ground Hitler and Christianity

Hitler was a lunatic no matter what he said or professed to believe. If he did PROFESS to have some belief in God, maybe he was simply using that as an excuse to go ahead and exterminate a race of people he didn't like.

Slug you said that all the Christians on this thread can't even agree - well I agree with everything that Bloss has said, as she appears to understand the doctrine of Christianity in the same way that I do. So I don't have any argument. Christianity is straight down the line when it comes to how we should live and it deals with areas of peoples' lives that they don't necessarily want to have to deal with, so that is when you get people choosing to believe their own version of the 'truth' to make it more palatable for themselves, instead of adhering to what the bible actually says. This is why you get people in religious circles fighting over issues like whether a gay person can become a priest, (etc etc), because they don't want to accept the bible at its word. They want to have it their own way. Just as homosexual sex is condemned in the bible, so is adultery, prostitution, fornication etc. So what will we have next - a prostitute who wants to become a minister of religion, just because she believes she has the right to do so?? People just twist and distort and argue what is CLEARLY stated in the bible, because they don't want to accept what it says. This is where off-shoots of so-called 'Christianity' have popped up all over the place, taking sections of the bible that they want to concentrate on and ignoring the rest, which is why there is so much confusion around nowadays regarding what's true and what's not.

God said somewhere in the old testament that 'men are blinded to the truth by the hardness of their hearts' - so I guess (IMO) if a person is really seeking God and really wants to know him, they will ultimately find what they are looking for.

Oh my. Having lurked - not thoroughly enough, I might add - for the last several weeks, I would have to say that the first message that has prompted a response is Phillipat's.

Because Phillipat has put her (or his) questions forth simply - much appreciated!

But not agreed with. Okay, I can't quote from the bible. And my ignorance is most assuredly going to be showing now - but hey, one thing I am very confident of is my ever increasing recognition of my lack of knowledge, or my ability to "quote."

But I will attempt a coherent response.

Point one - "a good friend to us [who] killed and abandoned part of himself..." He offered up to us His own flesh and blood, which was killed by man - not by Himself. And the abandonment was not actualized - so many times we feel abandoned but it is our own separation that makes us so - He is always there. Many times I have sworn I was left to suffer on my own, and cursed Him for it - and He was always there when I was ready to release my pride. And I became stronger as a result of my humility.

"He can't be bothered to remind us what a sin actually is..." Granted, when I walk out to work in the morning, and turn behind me and lock the front door, I don't trip over him on my front step. He isn't sitting there in his flowing white robes saying, "Hey Jo, by the way, on your way to work - try not to cut anyone off, 'kay? And don't cheat and lie, and try not to talk about that chick at work who is always throwing everyone under the bus so she looks better. Just be a good person, be charitable, and be nice to your mother." See, I think not to "sin" is not really this major reminder we need to have. I've studied many faiths, and the admonishment to not "sin" is pretty universal. Be good to one another, do unto others, karma, etc.

"He can't bear to have anything to do with us because we sin..." Okay, so my response to this is more ephemeral. I certainly know what it means "to sin" - probably more than I know what it means to not sin. But at my lowest times, at my points of the very worst choices I've made, the "messages" I have received have been never been of rejection - it is when the acceptance and love has been most strong. Yeah, I know, no facts to throw at you here, but I stopped trying to have cold hard facts a long time ago when it came to this "stuff" - and I was the most adament of cynics. There were too many unexplainable occurances that challenged my then purely "scientific" rationale.

"As long as we believe in him, he's happy to live with us after we die" Well, He is living with me through every painful and joyful day of my life, before I die. He has not handed out a list of deliverables and said "see you on the flip side -let's see if you followed the rules!" As each decision of our free will is made, He rejoices in those that are for the good of ourselves and humankind, and suffered for those that are not. And stood by us every step of the way no matter the direction they have gone in. Until our very last breath, He is loving us, and helping us, and wants to be accepted and loved in the way that he accepts and loves each and every one of us.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Not the most intellectual argument to be sure, but heartfelt. Hoo boy - it's amazing what a little sangria will do to a girl!

Libby, I'm sure I'm not reading you right. Are you saying that people who don't pracitse your sort of Christianity belong to offshoot sects and aren't REAL Christians? And you accuse me of being arrogant???

NO slug that is not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that some people pick and choose the parts of Christianity that they want, and they throw away the rest like it isn't relevant. There is no arrogance in that. I'm simply saying why profess to adhere to Christian principles if you're not going to embrace the whole thing? A lot of harm has been done by people who profess to be Christians and their actions say otherwise. They don't have any real comprehension of what it really means.