Bugsy

[sykes]

For some reason I can't reply on the board on this thread (affair - is he/isn't he) and would rather converse via e-mail anyway. I'd be really happy to "talk" in this way as it's not unfamiliar territory. Please feel free to get my e-mail address from tech.

Bonny Scotland Lil..... Oil and Gas Industry... anywhere close???

Ha Ha no deepest South East I'm afraid. I always see lots of jobs I could do at Dounreay (hint!), but tis too cold and barren for me!

Well done from me too - hope you have a great time!

Must change my e-mail address with tech because I had no idea I won the Legoland tickets. In fact, I don't remember having done anything to win them!
DH arrived home on Saturday and was a real misery guts. He had been away for nearly two weeks, living in luxurious hotels, was upgraded to First Class on his outbound and return flights - what on earth is wrong with this man?
Anyhow, after a really crumby day on Sunday I asked him what on earth was the matter and all this stuff pours out: he's lonely, stressed out, can't cope with the children, feels trapped, feels resentful, wants to run away, hates having to watch videos with ds, hates counselling, feels he is being watched and judged constantly, wants to go out when it suits him, wants to go running when it suits him, hates having to clear everything with me first, just basically hates family life.
I sat and listened absolutely horrified. I thought we had made real progress before he went away. I felt much more positive about things and I thought he had too. Our last counselling session was really forward looking and optimistic. Anyway, I forced myself to listen without commenting and screaming "you selfish B***D" and then I suggested that maybe he should take some time out away from us all to sort himself out. He has to decide what he is going to do by the weekend.
Feeling rather depressed about life generally. Thank you for the tips about project management. I am a bit at a loss where to start as it is a role I have fallen into rather than applied for originally. Anyway, I'm going to start looking using Lil's advice.

oh lordy, poor you bugsy. sounds a bit like a classic mid life crisis tbh. I guess you've got to either let him get it out of his system or leave him behind, although I totally support you for trying something down the middle. Good luck.

Bugsy that sounds incredibly distressing. You are being amazingly brave and calm about the whole situation. I think it's a good idea to put the ball in his court as far as the next step is concerned.

Bugsy

Just adding my support and comments that you are doing incredibly well, a much better woman than me.

Good luck, I cannot help feeling that this opening up ofresentment on his part has been for the best and things will get sorted one way or another now.

bugsy this may or may not help, but a very good friend (male) did just the same recently - all the same stuff about family life, what about me etc stuff that makes us feel like punching the man. I was so shocked as I'd known him for years and just couldn't believe he'd walk out on his wife and children. I actually sided with his wife and explained to him why. Anyway he did leave, took a flat in town only saw the kids midweek and every other w/e and three months later came crawling back - admitting he needed prof help, had been depressed, she was a saint etc. They have adapted their lives (he's going to stay near work three nights a week as he has a very long commute) she's happy with that as she's developed a life in the week as well and so far it's going well. Of course every situation is different, i just wanted you to know that sometimes it does work out in the end.

Wow, Bugsy reading your dh's list reminds me that men feel the same as us women, I mean look at this website, its here for us all to let out our resentments and frustrations about all of those same issues. With men its called a midlife crisis, I think for women its called life

It is still sad though, that he feels like that but can't see a way out of it. You're so right in letting him go and find himself. I wonder if part of the problem is that men can't open up to their friends in the same way as women, and it builds up and leads to destructive or depressive behaviour (umm this is deep!!).

Have you read that brilliantly funny book about the husband who has a family but pretends to work a long way away and stay over night a lot, whereas really he has rented a flat up the road and spends his time there lieing in bed catching up on sleep and being a lad! Meanwhile his wife shoulders all the family stresses. It explores all these issues your dh (and most of us!) have. Bugsy if you can both get hold of this book and read it, it will put life for him in perspective and beat counselling I'm sure!!
Can't remember what its called!!!!help - has anyone else read it?

Ok folks - I must be WAAAAY too cynical for this!! It sounds to me like this is another way for him to make you felll guilty and blame yourself. He's shifting the blame again. I don't think I'd let him go off and discover himself!!! Why should you sit at home and deal with all the sh*t on your own!!!???

...just me being cynical I guess.

bugsy, what a time you're having. I think you are doing the right thing in asking your dh if he wants to leave to sort himself out. Does he realise that it's one thing having a family you can return to at any time, and quite another thing in leaving a family for good? As the song goes, freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

I wonder what he'd feel like if after hearing his tale of woe you'd said 'Ok, no problem - move out and don't come back. In fact I'm seeing someone else who'd really like to move in with us'

I hope whatever he decides is good for your state of mind. If he decides to go temporarily, I hope you can get the practicalities worked out on joint terms not just his terms. ie how and when he contacts you etc to keep some control over the situation.

I know you feel you've got to let him do his thing, and that's a really strong, brave thing to do, but do make sure you don't suffer, and make it clear you will be getting on with your life, not just waiting around for him. Anyway, that's my advice, fwiw.

No Mum2Toby, I don't think you are cynical, I do feel cornered now. If he decides to stay, I know that he finds the whole family thing a huge millstone and that therefore that puts even more pressure on me than before.
Sobernow, he did say how unhappy he was but I don't actually think he is depressed. I think he is selfish and wants to be away from his children more than he wants to be with them. As far as I can work out, all he wants is the "golden moments" with none of the graft (wouldn't we all!).
I have almost got to the point where I want him to go unless he is prepared to throw his back into our family. This is why I have given him until the weekend to decide what he is doing.
Tigermoth, I cannot believe he would rather go ski-ing for a month in Colarado (one of his wish list whinges) and give up a life-time with his own two children but I almost feel I don't know him anymore.

Oh Bugsy - he sounds desperately selfish!! What about his kids?? I assume it was a decision you made together to have children and he's just deciding that now it's all too much!!

I can't imagine what you're going through, but I think he does need to move out and you need to get on with your life whether wants to be an active part of it or not.
How could he say those things about watching videos with his son???

I know I don't know him and I'm perhaps speaking out of turn, but he sounds like a horrible man and if one the biggest reasons for staying with him is for the kids sake then I think he's made it clear that he's not willing to make the effort to be a good Father.
He has created this mess, pleeeeeease never lose sight of the fact that this ALL his fault!

Thanks that's it Sobernow.

Bugsy you sound like you're getting mad now, can I go back to offering furious advice like Mum2Toby????

what is it with men that they don't understand the words responsibility and compromise. Selfish, selfish, selfish.

(phew that's better)

Oh, Bugsy. Being given the space by you in such a generous and calm way is much, much more than he deserves. What a fool he is. Hasn't he managed to get stuff like skiing out of his system yet?
Laughed a lot at the John O'Farrell at the time but hearing your story and that of someone else I know (a man and also on the verge of deserting his family because he "needs his space" ) makes me feel that the book was not a comedy at all but a scathing critique of what passes for men's minds. Lil's point about these feelings being something that women confront and then live with and men feel compelled to act on, was such a good one.

Marina, I also know a man who has just left his wife and kids too, for the same reasons. Isn't it frightening how many there must be? and isn't it infuriating how almost acceptable it is, and yet if women did it they would have the full wrath of the Daily Mail on their heads?

Grrrr its enough to make you burn your bra

Bugsy, I just want to say how good you're being about this whole situation. Giving him a chance to get away and sort him self out is way beyond anything I could possibly concider if I were in you position. Well Done for being so strong.

I have to say I really don't think he deserves you and all your patience. God, I really wish I could add something constructive here but I afraid that seems beyond me too.

Bugsy - what a selfish attitude he has - not that I think this is unusual, I think most of us have these thoughts sometimes. But men seem to take them seriously and let them take over for some reason. He sounds a sad case. Amazed you kept your self-control - I wouldn't have, I know. You deserve so much more.

I know a couple of men like this. usually what happens is they move out, wait for their wonderful bachelor single life to start. What they get instead is a poky small flat and a take away in front of the tv- and to boot it all they have to do thier own washing. They then try to come crawling back after they've swallowed their pride. At which stage it is up to the wife to decide whether they want them or not.

I think you have handled it brilliantly Bugsy. You've given him a deadline and he'll have to decide what he wants. Make sure you decide what you want as well though!

ohh you sound angry bugsy! just trying to think of something positive to say. Is is any good asking your dh exactly what he does like about family life - ie he doesn't have to watch videos with his kids - he could take them swimming instead. Is he trying to conform to a perfect image of fatherhood and hates the fact that he insn't smiling to the camera like the men in the ads? If he can't cope with the children, is that because he just isn't used to them - his job takes him away so much and they are changing all the time. Your children are young - IME they get a lot more easy company as they grow older. Does your dh feel he has to like them every minute of the time he is there? Does he know other fathers, and does he hear them complaing about their toddler's demands or is he under the impression that all the other fathers out there love changing nappies, watching endless bob the builder videos and cleaning up vomit?

I'm not trying to make excuses for him btw!

I've been reading this saga from the start, and I've been trying to find a politically correct way to talk about your not-so-dh. I'm afraid the best I've come up with is "what a complete shit!"

Sorry.