Was he, is he having an affair?

[Bugsy]

For some inexplicable reason, still not sure why I did this, I looked at dh's text messages on his 'phone. I have never, ever snooped on him before (been together for 11 years) and I cannot explain why I suddenly decided to do it now.
Anyhow, I found lots of texts on his 'phone from another woman. Not explicit or obviously suggesting that he has had an affair but most definitely intimating a close friendship. The texts span four months and the last one was mid-December.
I am slightly at a loss for what to do now. One of dh's close friends was caught just before Christmas with his trousers down and has subsequently left his wife and 2 children. He has been widely condemned by our circle of friends and will be taken to the cleaners by his wife's solicitors. I am wondering whether DH was up to no good and was frightened by our friend's situation.
It would be very easy for DH to have an affair as he works abroad a great deal.
Does anyone have any advice or experience of such a situation?

bugsy- thinking some more it strikes me that currently he holds all the cards. He can leave with the girlfriend if he wants, he ca ring her if he wants. he comes home he sees the kids. By kicking him out (temporarily while you decide what you want to do) you redress that balance. Suddenly he has to ring you if he wants to see his children.

Also see a solicitor. You don't need to go through with anything- but it may make him understand the seriousness. You do not need to make your mind up yet- you just need to try t get him to understand what he has done.

Bugsy, very much agree with Bayleaf, Lindy and NQWWW that you should persevere with the counselling if you feel able. It took me a couple of sessions to stop feeling vaguely antagonistic towards my counsellor's personal mannerisms - I so resented what had happened in my life that had led me there. I am very glad I stuck with it. Agree with others that your dh's attitude is incomprehensible and upsetting. I can only conclude that either he is what Tigermoth dared not say, or he is so seriously ashamed of himself and of looking into what passes for his mind, that he is retreating behind flippancy.
Sadly, there are women out there involved with married men who seem unable to perceive the irony of expressing concern about the state of their lover's marriage. I know one. She may well actually have said that to him. I think continuing to contact her at all is an unspeakable betrayal.
Thinking of you and terribly impressed with how strong and unselfish you are being.

bugsy, can you have a private session with the counsellor at short notice to talk through this? IF you decide you have to teach your dh a lesson by throwing him out for a while (not saying this is what you should do) is there any way you can see the counsellor first?

Do you think it's at all possible that on some coinscious/unconscious level your dh actually wants you to throw him out, even if he won't come out and say this?

Or is it worth simply threatening to throw him out unless he stops contact with this woman and shows commitment to building your relationship - you don't have to carry the threat through right now.

Oh, Bugsy, you poor thing.

I second tigermoth's suggestion anyway - since he doesn't seem to be taking the counselling seriously it may be better for you to have a few sessions on your own. I know you don't think you're coping very well, but I think you're doing extremely well to have tried as hard as you have so far.

Also, do you have a friend who you could stay with for a few days / a couple of weeks? It might be a good way to help you get your thoughts and feelings together without being quite as drastic as a trial separation.

All the best anyway.

Bugsy, I've been following this thread, but don't feel qualified to say anything as I'm the world's biggest doormat in difficult relationship situations (no reflection on my dh intended there). I just hope your husband sees sense and can be as committed to your marriage and children in future as you are.
Instinct is telling me that people who advise sticking with the counselling are probably right that it takes several sessions to bear fruit though.

Oh Bugsy, huge huge hugs and lots and lots of sympathy (and empathy having been there). I've been checking this thread everyday to see if you'd updated it...I agree with everyone who says give the counselling a shot. Doesn't mean I don't think he's being anything other than a prize ae though. The first session is always impossible because by the time you've got to the point it's time to finish. I don't know about the kicking him out thing - in my case I liked the idea of it as I thought it'd underline just how angry I was and how seriously I felt but we couldn't afford to maintain two homes. I'm sure I'm not alone in that! Thinking of you lots.

Managed to get a grip on myself again. Some really good advice - thank you all. I was trying to work out what I would advise if it wasn't me in this situation. It does feel like he holds all the cards. Every conversation we have about the situation is all about him, how he feels, how he felt, what he'll do to win my trust, respect etc and I do feel quite passive in a way.
I would love to go away with my babies for a long time but I sort of feel I need to stay and face up to this.
Someone wondered if subconsciously he was trying to make me throw him out and I have wondered the same thing. I know it is a sad male tactic to behave more and more badly until their partner is left with no option but to chuck them out. In fact, I've been there before.
I suppose a part of me wants him to make the decision. A very tiny bit of me almost wants him to move out, as then I would know better where I stood. I keep telling him I want him to be honest with me and with himself - but I'm not sure he knows what he wants.

Possibly I'm jumping to too many conclusions but surely he's simply trying to lay all the blame on you so that he no longer needs to feel guilty? I.e. its your fault entirely that he's had a affair, you forced him into this woman's arms. Please don't forget that you are the innocent party here not him. Look after yourself and your little ones and don't relieve him of any of the guilt. Good luck with everything and thinking about you and hoping like mad that you find a solution to this that will make you happy.

I've tried to think of something else constuctive to say but there nothing more that can be added that hasn't been said already so I just wanted to say how amazed I am at your whole situation and the way you've kept a level head through it all. Whatever you decide to do will be RIGHT for you and your children so keep your 'level head' on and you'll be ok even if it takes a while.
I have to just say about his coldness comment, and this is far from constuctive, but what the bloody hell did he expect from you. I hate to say it but he would have come out of that with a black eye if I were you so again well done on your level headedness!!!

Oh Bugsy - I feel so angry on your behalf! He has turned the situation around completely hasn't he? It is now your fault that he turned to someone else, and your fault that the marriage hasn't recovered. I get the feeling he is doing this deliberately to retract the guilt from himself. He doesn't want to appear to be at fault here, nor does he want to have to make amends, it might dent his ego, how much better it is to lay the blame on someone else and make them feel that they are making a fuss over nothing!

Have you actually got really angry with him yet? Perhaps for him to see the seriousness of this, he needs to listen to how you feel for a change - so why not tell him a few home truths? Tell him how it is for you, what your place is in this marriage, what your needs are, and what you will do if you don't resolve this. Don't be made to feel like you are kicking up a fuss over nothing, he has had an affair for pity's sake! Some marriages break up for less! He stands in danger of losing his wife and children over this, and will his lover support him then? What will he have left? You need to make this plain to him. Only when men realise what they stand to lose do they suddenly sit up and take notice. You need to make a few threats, preferably ones you can go through with. Do you have a friend or relative you can stay with for few days? Scare him into action, have a word with a solitictor (you are entitled to half an hours free consultation), just to make him realise that you are capable of making decisions, and that you will stand up for yourself.

Have a chat with a few girlfriends and tell them what is going on. Get some support, and get angry! Even get your in-laws on your side. Use all the means at your disposal to turn the situation back round to placing him firmly in the 'Guilty' box. He is using psychological techniques to defeat you, don't let him succeed! You do not deserve this and you have every right to keep on at him, to cry, to feel whatever way you want, and he needs to start supporting you.

Bugsy,so sorry to hear how difficult and frustrating the first session was.I do agree with those who say that its too early to give up on the counselling-I'm sure that it will be difficult but you should try to stick to it.
What is your husband saying about all this now(apart from sorry)Have you sat down together and talked-about anything and everything?I would second the idea of being out of the house it does help keep some calmness to the discussions.Does he actually work with this person,how come he was out with her and others on Friday and not with you?Are these evenings out work or social? Maybe you could go too,not so much from the point of view of "checking on him" but more to have some fun together and also for other people to be aware that you exist and that dh is part of a couple.
I'm not sure that throwing him out will actually achieve much in your situation - as I understand he is frequently away for long periods anyway -perhaps some different ground rules are needed here-that when he is home (from buisness trips ) he won't go out unless strictly buisness.That you will go out as a couple once a week when he's home, that he'll have the kids once a week so you can do something for yourself-a swim,a walk around the shops,see a girlfriend(even if you have to go to her house with her kids around-it is a break for you)and will get him to appreciate what you do day in day out whilst hes away.
Lastly and most importantly you are not to blame.If you are cold its in reaction to his behaviour.Maybe there are things in your marriage that need working on from both sides.I don't know and nor will you until you both sit down and both talk about whats happened.What I do know is that you are a loving mum of 2 small children,you work outside of the house as well, and you manage to cope with all this whilst your husband is absent for long periods.You are a star!!!Take care and be patient.

Oh Bugsy - everyone here has given such good advice. I can only add a little in my experience of living with a cheater (not dh). When I finally faced up to it I had a massive row, a real screamer. It felt quite surreal, like it wasn't me. I almost wanted to laugh - but it felt great and I kicked him out. I got all my friends to come over and pack his stuff, in front of him. They put it in his car while he ranted and raved. He then called his 'girlfriend' over and she sat on the sofa throughout without saying a word. I pissed her off by totally ignoring her..I then demanded his key - and off they trotted. It felt great!!

I know you've got kids..but Bugsy I wouldn't underestimate the feel good factor of kicking him out. Get your self-respect back...remember you can always ask him back. Nothing is irreversible, and if he has to be shocked and left to his own devices in order to make him realise what an ass he is, then you've got to let him go.

Go for it girl.

Thank you all again for your support and suggestions.
Quick update, not much to say really. Asked him on Tuesday night how he had got on when he talked to Miss X? Look of blind panic and "what do you mean?". I reminded him that he was going to tell her that there would be no more contact, apart from professional. He fluffed some inadequate response and then we were interrupted with demands for bedtime stories etc. Obviously, he hadn't told her at all.
Couldn't really bear to pick away any more at the time. However, I have written lots of questions that I want answers to when we go to counselling tonight. I don't feel we are any closer to reconcilliation but I suppose in the great scheme of things it is very early days.

Bugsy - even after all this has happened he STILL is not taking this seriously!!! He hasn't even told her yet?? What's stopping him?? If she means nothing to him then he should just phone her up and tell that's it(get him to do it in front of you - that's what my Mum made my Dad do, in fact, my sis and I were there too!).

Lil has some good advice for you. If he is still hiding things, can he really be trusted to end it?
Good luck Bugsy..... BE STRONG, AS ALWAYS!!

I think it's a great that you've written down questions for tonight. Hopefully you will get more out of this meeting. Your dh certainly seems to be playing games at the moment, Bugsy, but you seem very good at asking the right questions even if you didn't pin him down yesterday. It strikes me you are at the beginning of a long journey of discovery. I wish you lots of luck.