So Snag have responded exactly as expected unfortunately

[ffsthisisntbullying]

This is regarding the previous post regarding the Snag brand selling patches that promote choking. But of course we aren't allowed to be uncomfortable with it as women without being branded bullies etc. Disappointed is putting it lightly after being a loyal Snag customer from their first year. But I guess my experience as an abuse survivor is not valuable because kinks are being shamed, to heck with mine or any other abused people's discomfort with such wording. As expected the usual "kinks rule" brigade are out in force to shout down anyone with any genuine concerns. Not great Snag, not great..

www.facebook.com/share/p/DBTnRrGhf9gBJoqy/?mibextid=WC7FNe

That is truly disgusting from Snag. Choking is not funny or a badge of merit. I have bought from before but won't again now.
Popsy tights are great. Really comfy. I will stick to them in future.

I don't really know how to articulate my feelings on it
I wouldn't kink shame and I think what goes on between consenting adults is up to them. I even get a hand on the throat is fine - placed not pressed, not choking, there's a huge difference

But I do think choking is incredibly dangerous and it's too easy for someone to go too far and say "well we've done it before and she consented, I didn't realise etc etc" and next thing someone is dead or injured
Or even a one night stand for a guy to say "she asked me to choke her" and what, get away with murder? Its strangulation by another word

I dislike the continuing attempts to normalise kink, at Pride, by firms such as Snag and in schools. Blurring boundaries is always dodgy.
I dislike use of the words slut, etc, which demean women.
I dislike violent, dangerous and demeaning practices, to which people can't consent, such as strangulation.
These are not BDSM, which are structured and safe sexual practices, with safe words, etc, that are carefully observed.

Oh, and I dislike being lectured by a tights purveyor.

Basically, as the Edwardians had it “I really don’t mind what people do, so long as they don’t do it in the street and frighten the horses”

The comments on Insta are 🤢

So many women desperate to show how submissive and accepting they are. I think they need a badge that says Pick Me rather than Choke Me.

99% of the negativity on Mumsnet is in AIBU- mostly by drive through idiots who come via newspaper sites. Some of which will be men who love an opportunity to tell a bunch of women off. If you hide AIBU it's a very supportive site, for one with such a wide reach.

The comments on Insta. Woke misogyny served up with a giant dollop of ignorance and intolerance and zero empathy for the thousands of women who experience non fatal strangulation every year. ‘Choking is basically mainstream now’.

Where did it all go so wrong that we have reached the point where some women have actually swallowed the lie that it’s somehow cool and sexy to be strangled by your partner.

https://safelives.org.uk/training/non-fatal_strangulation

Woke misogyny is an oxymoron.

I came on here many years ago because the TES fora were often quite rude about Mumsnet (but not vicious like Snag have been). I obviously ended up staying! Miss the TES fora hugely (the idiots in charge closed it down), but get a lot of information and support on here, for many aspects of life.

I wonder what the be kind, don’t kink shame witless morons on Snag’s socials thinking more important.

• Normalising a practice that a tiny number of consensual adults incorporate in their sex lives so they don’t feel ‘kink shamed’.

or

• NOT normalising a practice that is humiliating, degrading, potentially dangerous and potentially fatal, and highlighting the dangers of it so that young women don’t fall for the claptrap that is ‘choking is mainstream!’, ‘if you don’t do it you’re a boring pearl clutching square who uses Mumsnet!’ and therefore don’t find themselves in situations where they’re bullied into doing something that could leave them at best feeling humiliated and degraded and at worst injured or dead.

I wonder.

This. It’s all very ‘if you don’t like us glorifying VAWG then you don’t have to buy the sticker!’

Exactly! There’s a big difference between saying fine, there’s this thing that a small (and it is small) number of adults get off on doing, it’s not safe and can go badly wrong but if you understand what it’s about and enjoy it then do it, just don’t go on about it AND saying Choking is cool and everyone does it and if you don’t like it you’re a boring old prude!

Have they thought about the fact that impressionable, probably young, women might read their comments and be influenced by them into doing something they’re uncomfortable doing?

Of course they haven’t because like all be kind idiots they are devoid of empathy and intolerant of any position but their own.

From Oxford Languages:
choke
/tʃəʊk/
verb
(of a person or animal) have severe difficulty in breathing because of a constricted or obstructed throat or a lack of air.

The phrase 'choke me' does not mean 'playfully put your hand on my throat'. It means 'Squeeze my throat so hard that I can't breathe.'

Serious Crime Act (2015)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/9/section/75A
[F175A
Strangulation or suffocation(1)A person (“A”) commits an offence if—

(a)A intentionally strangles another person (“B”), or

(b)A does any other act to B that—

(i)affects B's ability to breathe, and

(ii)constitutes battery of B.

(2)It is a defence to an offence under this section for A to show that B consented to the strangulation or other act.

(3)*But subsection (2) does not apply if—

(a)B suffers serious harm as a result of the strangulation or other act, and

(b)A either—

(i)intended to cause B serious harm, or

(ii)was reckless as to whether B would suffer serious harm*.

Quite, Diane. My jaw dropped when a reply for clarification was "it's something all couples do!"

A clumsy and poorly worded - and desperately over-eager- answer more than anything, but taken literally it seemed like a very stupid thing to put in writing.

That there's more than one way to approach this, rather than welcoming in a new 'community' that mustn't be 'shamed' is clearly completely beyond them.

It is absurd that MNers (and MN feminists in particular) are being painted as dreadful oppressors for objecting to the promotion of choking.

All this ‘don’t yuck my yum’ (which is a truly appalling phrase) is individualistic nonsense. I don’t care if you get your thrills from allowing your sexual partner to do something that may very well kill you, this is not something any society should be promoting.

Of course people should be criticising and boycotting companies that seek to normalise and promote practices that increase the potential harm to women and girls in our highly patriarchal society. These are ‘problematic companies’ seeking to profit off this stuff and they should be challenged over it.

In case anyone from Snag is reading (!), I have an issue specifically with the slogans on these patches, the worst one being the choking reference. That's because of issues around safety for women as per the We Can't Consent To This campaign, not because I'm "vanilla", a conformist, right wing, anti-kink or whatever.

//

This in spades. It's depressing that so many posters here who I'm assuming are women are not prioritising this over "hey don't judge my sex preference ".

@Organaforever
I love your username is it a Star Wars ref?

What ever happened to keeping your sex life private? If people didn’t bang on endlessly about their revolting and dangerous proclivities, there would be nothing to “kink-shame” 🤮 would there.

Unlike some PPs, I do care what people do behind closed doors. I care that choking strangulation has been made into a mainstream activity and you’re a prude if you find it a form of VAWG. I care that my daughter is in a world where she is risking her life every time she has sex with a new partner. I care that BDSM is being shoved down our throats endlessly, and I care that the ridiculous insult “vanilla” is thrown at anyone normal.

It is

I’ve managed to block all snag ads on FB. I said it was ‘sensitive content’.

• 1000

Can I also just take a moment to say how much I despise the term “breath play” (as seen in the insta comments) urgh

They are totally missing the mark on “consent” and choking and it’s these daft women that lead to violent men thinking it’s a get off the hook card for violence. You can’t consent to being murdered ffs

Considering the number of women who have been killed under the guise of 'consensual choking' it's perfectly reasonable to criticise efforts to normalise it.

It’s fascinating that pro-choking posters want to categorise the objections as merely ‘being triggered’ or ‘being offended’ or whatever. Rather than a very clear safety issue over the positioning of restricting another human’s
ability to breathe as ‘fun’ or ‘play’.

Falke are miles better. I don't think I'll ever need to buy tights again with about 10 pairs of those.
More expensive, but Snag probably think we are all little housewives with pin money we have to perform to our husbands for, rather than professionals who keep the household going.

It's rather like wearing a badge saying "rape me". It makes the rest of the male world think "ok, if my girlfriend isn't into it I'll just do it anyway because she's a prude and it's fine and dandy".