So Snag have responded exactly as expected unfortunately

[ffsthisisntbullying]

This is regarding the previous post regarding the Snag brand selling patches that promote choking. But of course we aren't allowed to be uncomfortable with it as women without being branded bullies etc. Disappointed is putting it lightly after being a loyal Snag customer from their first year. But I guess my experience as an abuse survivor is not valuable because kinks are being shamed, to heck with mine or any other abused people's discomfort with such wording. As expected the usual "kinks rule" brigade are out in force to shout down anyone with any genuine concerns. Not great Snag, not great..

www.facebook.com/share/p/DBTnRrGhf9gBJoqy/?mibextid=WC7FNe

£26, they only go up to a size 22 and they dont take height into account. I dont think many will go from Snag to there.....

I get mine on ebay or at TK Maxx so I look out for them when they are around the £15 mark, and most of the women I know who buy Snag are not over size 22, they just want something that fits and stays up.

Like I say, I am still wearing 10 year old tights and I have the money to buy them if they fit. Snag don't fit nearly as well and aren't as opaque. Snag's target demographic is "women who want tights that fit" not "women who don't earn much and are over size 22" so in among that group there will be women like me who want to buy once for 10 years.

I don’t care if you get your thrills from allowing your sexual partner to do something that may very well kill you, this is not something any society should be promoting.

Trouble is some of these sex people are so desperate for attention and to tell you all about how desperately different and outré and individual they are and what makes them unique and not like those other sheeples, that no matter how much you don't care, don't want to hear it and you aren't interested, they will just keep telling you. And they think everyone else should be like this as well or they are just terribly repressed and sad.

@Illpickthatup

We can't just go around banning everything because someone might be triggered.

But choking / strangling is unique in that it is so dangerous and can cause brain damage or death very easily.

Disagreeing with commercialising something that dangerous is different to 'kink shaming' IMO.

They seem to have taken down the comment where someone corrected their "86% of Americans have tried it at least once" comment.
I wish I was a customer of theirs so I could stop buying from them and tell them why.

Yes and is also something we know young girls are being told is normal and also being pressured into. The fact a female CEO of a proudly woman owned company is encouraging this disgusts me. We expect it from men but 🤦‍♀️

It’s like ‘Hey we’re a proudly woman owned company with a supplier that’s a proudly woman owned company - we’d like to buy their product normalising a violent sexual act primarily aimed at women and girls please! When women on a women owned forum complain we’ll denigrate them on our social media. Yay! Choke Me!’

I also wonder what ‚kink shaming‘ actually means.
If a kink is something you do in private with other consenting adults - where exactly does the element of judgement come from? Who criticises you?
Or is it considered ‘shaming’ if certain kinks aren’t fully and completely normalised in the mainstream society? Does everyone have to approve said kink for people not to feel ‘shamed’?

From what I can tell, some people’s kink is being kink shamed. And some people’s kink is letting everyone else know how permissive / submissive they are (Pick Me! Choke Me!). Otherwise why would they be all over a tights social media page talking about how great choking is and how awful mums on a forum who’d rather not normalize that are. The bit they’re missing is the men on there want to be them not be with them.

If your particular kink is gambling whether you kill your girlfriend or not, I think you should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

If I was a predatory/abusive man and saw a woman wearing a "Choke Me" patch, then I'd think all my Christmases had come at once.

Low self esteem, desperate for attention, plus a nice pre-printed excuse for if it "goes wrong" and she ends up dead.

From what I can tell, some people’s kink is being kink shamed.

That’s an interesting point.
It’s a bit like a moody teenager wearing some outrageous outfit and walking around with a ‘Look at me! Don’t look at me!’ air about them.

The irony of the comments calling ALL mumsnetters phobic this and phobic that, a cesspit of poison, full of ugly bored housewives etc is almost too strong to believe!

I wonder why they used an American statistic to prove their point? I’d love to see the true statistics around women being choked during sex with no consent? Or those around teenage girls being coerced into this after young boys are seeing it being so normalised in daily life even outside of their porn viewing.

*The irony of the comments calling ALL mumsnetters phobic this and phobic that, a cesspit of poison, full of ugly bored housewives etc is almost too strong to believe!

I wonder why they used an American statistic to prove their point? I’d love to see the true statistics around women being choked during sex with no consent? Or those around teenage girls being coerced into this after young boys are seeing it being so normalised in daily life even outside of their porn viewing.*

This. Meantime in the "near death experiences" thread currently running on mumsnet there are multiple women (myself included) talking about our personal experiences of being choked without consent. Quite possibly there are more women with lived experience here talking about how dangerous it is than there are over at Snag talking about how awesome it is...

@Dorriethelittlewitch I wonder if it might be worth sharing that thread with Snag and asking them to have a read..

I wonder if it might be worth sharing that thread with Snag and asking them to have a read..

Call me cynical but I suspect its the wrong kind of lived experience for them and wouldn't make any difference whatsoever

Love love love the way the only ever so mildly critical post they've not zapped was written by a man! Nasty mumsnettters can STFU but we'll let a man speak. This is not a criticism of the man in question BTW - I agree with him.

It’s like my husband getting off on me dressing up as a rabbit for sex (he doesn’t, we are so boring and prudish I know) which would be a private thing between us concerning nobody, then I go out and tell everyone and demand they tell me it’s ok and normal and that we all talk about it all the time or else I’ll cry and stamp my feet about being kink shamed.

If you genuinely, without any coercion involved, like your sexual partner to cut off your blood supply during sex then have at it but please for the sake of everyone leave it at that and STFU about it. I promise you that very few other people want to know. Talking about it does not normalise it in the way these idiots think. It legitimises violence, primarily against women and girls. Yay! So progressive.

The origins of kink shaming have been totally twisted as well. It originated (for online use at least) in kink communities. It was always more a “don’t kink shame me for liking latex when you like spanking” type thing.

It was never, ever, ever (imo) meant to be about forcing kinks into the faces of people generally.

Ever since 50 Shades the concept of discretion and consent has been truly completely lost imo. Nobody should be sharing details of their sex lives with anyone that hasn’t consented to that sharing.

Flashing delivery drivers, wearing descriptive badges, and wearing fetish wear in public places is all missing consent and that slippery slope is being slid down at a scary rate of knots.

That’s really interesting and makes more sense.
I think the whole concept of expecting everyone to celebrate all differences rather than ‘just’ accept and respect them is a bit of a new thing.

I miss the days (that may have only existed in my imagination) when fetishes were mostly about involving feet and food into sex.

Not violence. Perpetrated by men onto "consenting" women.

If this makes me vanilla then yes I'm proud of being vanilla. Most popular ice cream flavour for a reason.

I wonder if I can organise Prude marches as an alternative to Pride marches - all LGB would be welcome but we'd be wearing librarian cardigans and sensible shoes.

I have a real problem with the sneering use of ‘vanilla’ as an insult.

As @Mumoftwo1312 says, there’s a reason vanilla ice cream is so popular.

I think that the metaphor can be stretched further too. Vanilla is actually not some bland and boring thing. It was a very special and sought after thing. Even 20 years ago using real vanilla (rather than just flavouring) in your baking etc was viewed as quite fancy. Somehow we’ve decided that vanilla is boring and crap this century. Just vanilla is not good enough.

We are busy sneering at vanilla and telling women and girls that it’s not good enough. Being ‘vanilla’ makes you boring and just not as good as these more adventurous people with their choke me badges. 🙄

(I suspect there may be mileage in some dreadful colonial era exploitation extension of the metaphor too - there’s lots of money to be made in all this).

It’s a new thing.

The whole attitude toward sex has changed everywhere.

I have a friend who runs a swingers club and they’ve changed procedures for new members because of the number of people who don’t seem to believe in, or be capable of, discretion and respecting others.
Contrary to what many would think that was always a lifestyle where respect, consent and discretion was paramount. The amount of people now who quite happily, almost boastingly, feel the need to tell everyone and also get snarky with other swingers who don’t shout it from the rooftops is quite staggering. Nobody needs to know what kind of sex life their sibling, neighbour, mechanic has.

@StragglyTinsel The turning of vanilla into an insult is such a turn around as well.

Everything has been changed and twisted and it’s a tragedy for women and especially for girls (as it’s going to get worse imo)

Agreed. I feel utter despair. The number of women who are killed by men who claim they were consenting to xyz, and even on here you have women defending someone restricting their airway. Wtaf.

I have some very interesting and sinister info on snag tights.. if anyone still gets notifications fo this thread.

I new to mumsnet.