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Original poster

GF: Love her or hate her? the Great Debate. Please leave all weapons at the door and NO stomping off, offended. OK?

543 replies

SoupDragon · 16/10/2002 16:42

OK, to avoid the Great Debate cluttering up other threads where pro-GF mums are asking for help, I've started this one. It may have been done before...

If you read another thread and have nothing helpful but want to share your GF feelings, do it here!

I guess it could get heated here so please don't get offended and storm off in a huff as has happened elsewhere with other contentious issues - just avoid this thread

OK, for what it's worth, I have no problems with GF except for the fact that all babies are different so her rigid routine may not fit in with your baby. You should maybe see her routines as flexible - half an hour or an hour either way isn't going to make much difference is it? And I think that before 6 weeks is way too young to be messing with feeding routines, especially if you're breastfeeding. It can mess up your supply in theose important first weeks and I think this is why breastfeeding counsellors seem to hate her so much.

Right, I'm off to duck beneaththe parapet and let you get on with it!

OP posts:
Tinker · 31/10/2002 22:41

Lindy, I do agree with you BUT....most childminders have more than one child to look after so the hourly rate could really be £7.50. Not saying this is good, at all! However, I do remember estimating my daughter's childminder's income and realising it was more than mine (civil servant so not hard). Still wouldn't do that job twice my salary though.

bossykate · 31/10/2002 22:47

after the last "gf" thread - i think it was actually about childcare gurus in general - which upset me quite a lot, have been feeling quite prooud of myself for staying away from this one.

however, can't resist a bit of a chuckle at the way this has moved from:
*GF - onto
*bottle v. bf (briefly)
*sahm and working mother
*different types of childcare

sorry - but it can't be long before mmr and smacking are being hotly debated here!

some very interesting well thought out and measured comments (the majority) - other comments definitely in the "give me strength" bucket along with St Diana Greatest Briton of all time ever!

that is my trivial 2c to this.

WideWebWitch · 31/10/2002 22:48

bossykate, thought the same! Isn't it lovely, the organic growth of such a thread?!!

bossykate · 31/10/2002 22:56

yes, it might even stir one to poetic leanings!

ScummyMummy · 31/10/2002 23:24

articulate is bossykate
when she pens her prose
could it be that sweet poetry
also from her flows?

bossykate · 01/11/2002 07:01

it barely scans, it barely rhymes
cruelginamum commits poetic crimes!

fraid so, scummy, thanks for the kind words!

susanmt · 01/11/2002 10:19

We could go back to GF if you like!!!

bossykate · 01/11/2002 10:35

no, please, no, anything but that!

tigermoth · 01/11/2002 11:05

Where will this thread go next? indeed.

Rhubarb, just to say I think bugsy's idea of staying with your dd at nursery is great. Please don't think childminders/nursery staff are as a rule deliberately distant from parents. I have found that college/leisure centre creche nursery workers are less likely to spend time getting to know you simply because they have your child for just a few hours a week, and perhaps just for a few months. IME if you want to get to know them better they will happily talk to you - it's part of their job to put parents at ease.

In the case of a full time childminder, of course you will soon build up a closer relationship with them. You see them every working day in their home and they will get to know your child quicker because they see more of her.

I've seem my sons to through a clinging to mum/hating a particular creche time around the age of 2. It's something they did grow out of. Hope your daughter does this too.

Croppy · 01/11/2002 11:27

Foxhunting anyone?

prufrock · 01/11/2002 11:43

War with Iraq?

Tinker · 01/11/2002 11:46

asylum seekers?

forest · 01/11/2002 12:13

Well, I have managed to waste an hour reading this thread as I have found it so fascinating. Had a huge response to GF but found it has now moved on. So in response to child minding. I have a friend who was a nursery nurse who did work in a nursery before she left to be a teachers aide. She is absolutely fantastic with children, very creative, patient etc. However, when she had her first child 2.5 years ago she gave up work. Her reason was she had worked in a nursery and babies just couldn't be given the care that she wanted for her own child. She is an extremely wonderful SAHM.
I also used to do some childminding, nannying when I was younger and I absolutely adored the babies/toddlers I looked after and 15 years later (can't belive it is that long) love to know what they are up to. But having just had my own baby (6.5 months) I realise that what I felt for those children is so far removed from the emotions that have over taken me since having dd. I would hate to leave her in someone elses care day in day out no matter how great they are. I also hate work and prefer the fluidity of my day with dd. Although I run my own business (yet to make money from it!!!) which does give me a focus other than dd.
Like Zebra, I do wonder why women have babies if you don't want to be with them for the first few years. My step-mum (she is 38) made the decision not to have kids because she didn't want to compromise her lifestyle.
I also think we should be questioning how we bring up our children as there seems to be alot of unhappy kids out there. Children are individuals with feelings and I sometimes think this is forgotten.

prufrock · 01/11/2002 12:17

Children are for life, not just for the first few years. I don't feel that my inability to be satisfied with looking after a small baby/toddler affects my ability to bring up a child for the rest of her life. And I worked out that even in full time work, I still spend 4 of my dd's 10 waking hours per day with her, and 10 hours at the weekends, so she does spend more time with me than anyone else. (Made me feel a bit better)

Tinker · 01/11/2002 12:23

But 50% of pregnancies are unplanned, so not all women ARE choosing. They then have to make choices based upon their circumastances.

forest · 01/11/2002 12:24

Yes, I realise children are for life.

forest · 01/11/2002 12:28

How many people here had unplanned pregnancies? From what I have read most people here seem intelligent, well read women and would be using contraceptive (yes I know it can fail) if they didn't want a child.

Tinker · 01/11/2002 12:32

er me!

Batters · 01/11/2002 12:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rhubarb · 01/11/2002 15:10

Err, mine was, but I guess you all know that, the condom just seemed to "disappear", and it was right after watching The Blair Witch Project too - 2 days before Halloween!

Thanks for your suggestions about the nursery, but I'm afraid I cannot do any of them. My course starts at 1.30pm every week, the f/t children have their dinner at 12.30pm and so I've been told not to bring dd until 1.20pm at the earliest in case they are all still eating, and dd and I would disrupt lunch. They do seem to be dismissive of concerned parents, but I feel my hands are tied, I have no-one else to look after her on my college day. Knowing this makes me feel even guiltier, tbh I would have taken her out by now if I could have, the scenes each week are awful and I cannot concentrate in class because my thoughts are with her.

Anyway I shouldn't be contributing to a thread like this as I'm a wee bit depressed, and have been for weeks now, so I should really steer clear of such debates!

forest · 01/11/2002 15:55

I've just had a lovely 4 mile walk thinking about unplanned pregnancies (am I becoming obsessed with mumsnet?!).
Where does this satistic 50% of pregnancies are unplanned come from?
Anyway I was thinking about my friends, who didn't have babies, who did and of those whose were unplanned and have come up with my own satistics. Based on a sample of 35 people, I know this isn't a huge sample range but as an ex-scientist I know satistics can be made out of anything.
Of these 35 women (me included) 15 have had babies so less than 50%, out of this only 3 were very definately unplanned (20%) giving a much lower satistic than 50%. If you take the number of unplanned pregnancies out of the total sample range you have a statistic of less than 10% of women having unplanned pregnancies.
This means 90% of women are choosing to have children or not. This is significant! It shows that as far as my circle of friends are concerned we are choosing to have children.

Tinker · 01/11/2002 16:08

Well, I'm pleased to hear you have such a sensible circle of friends.

emmabee · 01/11/2002 16:19

I think any discussion of 'planned' or 'unplanned' babies is a bit of a red herring. Even when babies are planned, you have absolutely no conception (no pun intended!) what it is like to look after them, & some people cope better than others. I always intended to return p/t & did so when ds was 7mo. it's a great arrangement: ds has 2 days alone with me, then 2 days with his beloved nanny. Weekends are spent as a family - unledss Arsenal intervene! & dh looks after him on Mondays. Until I went back to work I felt like the most boring person alive. I had nothing to contribute to any social gathering; the only thing I did was look after ds, & I didn't feel I did that very well as everyone else seemed to find childcare a breeze. Working means I have enough money to pay my pension, get my hair cut & buy clothes now & then. Is that more important than spending time with my son? Probably not, but it makes me feel like an attractive, reasonably interesting woman again.

Anyway, if I didn't go to work I'd never get onto mumsnet!

prufrock · 01/11/2002 16:32

And that would be a terrible thing emmabee

I actually feel a bit of a fraud describing myself as a working mum as all I seem to have managed to do this pm is surf the net play with a powerpoint presentation!

WideWebWitch · 01/11/2002 16:35

Er Forest, I'm sensible and intelligent and my ds wasn't planned either. But hey. Maybe your friends are, as you say, an unrepresentative sample.

I will take issue with your comments> "why do women have babies if you don't want to be with them for the first few years...I also think we should be questioning how we bring up our children as there seems to be alot of unhappy kids out there. Children are individuals with feelings and I sometimes think this is forgotten."

Um, just because women have babies doesn't mean they don't want or need (or either, or both) to work or have other things in their lives too. Of course you feel more strongly about your own child than you did about the children you cared for, but this doesn't mean that childminders/nurseries/nannies in general are providing substandard care or that children suffer as a result of parents working. And yes, I've seen the surveys and frankly, as you say, you can use stats to prove anything.

Of course there are unhappy kids out there (and adults) but are you making a direct correlation between unhappy kids and parents who go out to work? I hope not but maybe you could clarify?

And we are all constantly questioning how we bring up our children: this is a parenting site. So I don't think anyone here has forgotten that children are individuals with feelings.

Errr, Religion anyone?