Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Other subjects
Original poster

GF: Love her or hate her? the Great Debate. Please leave all weapons at the door and NO stomping off, offended. OK?

543 replies

SoupDragon · 16/10/2002 16:42

OK, to avoid the Great Debate cluttering up other threads where pro-GF mums are asking for help, I've started this one. It may have been done before...

If you read another thread and have nothing helpful but want to share your GF feelings, do it here!

I guess it could get heated here so please don't get offended and storm off in a huff as has happened elsewhere with other contentious issues - just avoid this thread

OK, for what it's worth, I have no problems with GF except for the fact that all babies are different so her rigid routine may not fit in with your baby. You should maybe see her routines as flexible - half an hour or an hour either way isn't going to make much difference is it? And I think that before 6 weeks is way too young to be messing with feeding routines, especially if you're breastfeeding. It can mess up your supply in theose important first weeks and I think this is why breastfeeding counsellors seem to hate her so much.

Right, I'm off to duck beneaththe parapet and let you get on with it!

OP posts:
Enid · 31/10/2002 13:48

rhubarb, I think we have spoken before about the 'clingy child syndrome', dd1 was very clingy at 2 and I had a terrible time settling her at nursery. I eventually gave up and chose a childminder instead. It gave dd1 a huge amount of confidence. I absolutely trusted her with my child. I think its important to realise that other people CAN look after your child well, and I also think it is a very valuable gift to teach your child to trust others. Yes, there are weirdos out there but the chance of coming into contact with them is slim.

Could you try another nursery for dd? Or even, gulp a childminder?

Enid · 31/10/2002 13:49

I agree with Tinker, you could try her twice a week - 6 days is a long gap for a 2 year old.

Azzie · 31/10/2002 14:01

It always bugs me when people think that my children will be happy left with anyone "because they're used to going to nursery". For both of my children their nursery has been like a second home, and their carers have become like part of the family to them. The staff are loving and caring, and many of them have worked there since my ds first started going there 5 and a half years ago. It was wonderfully reassuring when dd started at 6 months old to be giving her into the care of the girl who had been ds's favourite carer when he was in the baby room.

My personal observations of children at nursery is that the ones who only go one day a week don't settle as easily as those who go more often - I think the long gap between visits unsettles them, makes it harder for them to become familiar with the routine etc.

hmb · 31/10/2002 14:12

The nursery that I took dd and ds to, for a 2 and a half hour session strongly sugested that they go twice a week so that they could get used to the system, and settle in. They were quite right. The children loved it because they could remember what happened.

Rhubarb · 31/10/2002 14:48

I think people are misreading my last post. I was detailing my own experiences and thoughts, not telling others. I am certainly not condeming working mothers or child carers. All I can say is what I know. A colleague of mine used to leave her little girl at an expensive nursery whose staff were described in my last post, hers was the child who would come home with unexplained bruises. My dh's sisters also have had trouble finding the right child care for their kids, after some pretty bad starts.

I leave my dd in the nursery once a week as that is when I go to college, I have to pay to leave her any longer, which I cannot afford to do. Plus I have to catch 2 buses just to get there! I am not going to take her out as I have no-one else to look after her, yet every week is just as upsetting for both her and me. But this is my child, not a judgement on other people's children who are happy as larry to be left. I was merely trying to empathise with Zebra as everyone seemed to be ganging up on her, I thought I would provide another target. I don't get offended much so throw all you can at me! But neither will I apologise for my views which are not, and never have been, controversial or judgemental. If I am wrong please feel free to point this out to me (quotes to be made in context please!)

Yes parents are just as likely to abuse their children as childminders are. And for those of you who know their childminders very well, you are lucky. I have never gotten to know who dd's nursery carers are as they are too busy to introduce themselves to me. I know a lot of other mums who do not know their child's carers personally too. So long as they have the right qualifications that seems enough for them.

I do not think that working mums are wrong to work. But I am curious, as Zebra is, why some mums who have planned their family choose to work f/t. And I am talking choice here, not necessity. I know of a few mums who could get by comfortably, if either them or their partners stayed at home. But I've never asked them why they choose to do this, for fear of encountering the backlash that is happening here. Why do working mums feel that anything SAHMs say is a criticism of them? Just chill out! Perhaps you're all over worked!

tigermoth · 31/10/2002 15:07

'Why do working mums feel that anything SAHMs say is a criticism of them?'

Well if a SAHMs comment includes criticism of childminders and nursery workers per se, of course working mums are going to take this as criticism of their choice. How could they not?

I'm not saying this is how you came across Rhubarb, and I know you are referring to your own experiences, but others here are only referring to theirs too. Unless I an mistaken, none of the recent messages here say anything that's anti SAHM at all.

Rhubarb · 31/10/2002 15:11

What if I was a working mum who criticised childminders, would that make a difference? Am I not allowed to because I stay at home? The majority of childminders probably do it because they really do love kids, I just haven't met one or heard of one really. And I meet a lot of childminders at the M&T groups.

Croppy · 31/10/2002 15:22

Well I really am lost. What I see here is simply a lot of very reasonable responses from people detailing their own experiences Rhubarb.

Tortington · 31/10/2002 15:26

lol rhuby - yes i am over worked - still dont like my kids - i beg my boss for longer hours so i dont have to be around them or DH.
i just dont know how you can stand to be around them all day yuk

children V's making lotsa money no contest - i even left my oldest ds with a 17 yr old who couldnt put a disposable nappy on him -didnt i rhuby! see i m not arsed who i leave em with aslong as its a minimum of half a mile away, i just dont understand te mentallity of you sahm's wanting to be around ur kids all the time ewww

Rhubarb · 31/10/2002 15:30

Sorry, I just resented the idea that my child was upset because I didn't take her to the creche for long enough! Yesterday was nursery day and it was the worst yet. I also felt that Zebra was being unfairly criticised. Maybe I should stick to the weaning threads!

Rhubarb · 31/10/2002 15:33

Oi Custdie - don't you start! I know all about you, you wicked mother! Leaving your firstborn alone all night with an inexperienced 17 year old whilst you and your dh went out partying! Shall I tell them about the video too?! And as for spending all day with the little treasures... no thanks! I might be a SAHM but that's what grannies are for, to take them off your hands for a while. Her granny is the only one she'll go to at the moment! And you know I'm gonna make more money than you when I'm rich and famous!

Tortington · 31/10/2002 15:34

yeah leave rhuby alone - she likes kids - she cant help it

Tortington · 31/10/2002 15:39

isnt it a waste being at home all day - nowt to do but watch trisha?

Bugsy · 31/10/2002 15:56

Rhubarb, I'm quite shocked that the staff at the nursery where you leave your daughter don't introduce themselves. In your position, I would ask them if I could come along one morning with my child and just spend a bit of time getting to know them. If you are there with your daughter then they won't charge you for this and if you explain you are worried by how distressing you are both finding the process at the moment then I'm sure they will be happy to help you.

hmb · 31/10/2002 16:15

Rjubarb,
I do sympathis, as it can be awful if children a deeply unhappy when they are left. I didn't mean that you were wrong to leave them for one day only. I was just passing on the advice that was given to me. The staff at the nursery found that if they children only came once a week, they forgot about the routines between visits. Those who came were more settled. and it wasn't a case of needing the extra trade, the place a a waiting list of many months.

We all do the best we can for our children, given the situations we find ourselves in.

hmb · 31/10/2002 16:16

Sorry Rhubarb! Typo city here today

prufrock · 31/10/2002 16:19

Oh poo - I was just in the middle of a long post and crashed. Can't be bothered now - too busy working

Rhubarb - we love you and I don't think you've been judgmental at all.

I planned a baby and planned to work f/t afterwards. I am a bad carer for children - but there's more to being a mother than making play doh and painting, and I do know that I am good at the rest.

bluestar · 31/10/2002 17:01

Rhubarb, my ds (nearly 2) has just started nursery 2 days a week and we are still at the crying and being prised away stage BUT within 5 mins, ds is happy and playing. A real breakthrough the other day when (1) he ran into nursery (2) he cried when one of his carers went home! It is hard when they only go a couple of times a week and I know children do settle if they go for short periods every day much quicker. I think it is about completely trusting the nursery/carers and then working from that point in. I work 3 days a week, and yet ds is very clingy with me ALL the time at the moment and I'm sure it's an age thing. I know other children that are exhibiting the same behaviour and this seems to be regardless of whether they are with a SAHM, nursery/childminder etc. I also know one child who has never been left with anyone, who doesn't mix with other children/adults and I do wonder how this child will be when she starts school in a few years. I guess we all have to do what we think is the right thing for the child and for us as parents. Good luck.

Enid · 31/10/2002 17:12

rhubarb - yes, maybe you don't leave her for long enough. sorry if you see that as a criticism, its not meant to be, just an observation that my dd settled very quickly into nursery doing 3 mornings a week, two of her friends that do one morning still haven't settled. I think sending them more often is something that nursery workers/other mums often suggest if you are really concerned that she's not settling.

Clarinet60 · 31/10/2002 19:50

Just to put cat among, etc, I tried leaving DS1 for longer and it made him worse. Just doesn't like the nursery env. Bit better at childminders but still not great. The nursey concerned was fantastic, but I'm on the verge of finding another and trying again.

Enid · 31/10/2002 20:03

Droile, when dd1 was 2 there was no way she would settle at nursery. She's now 2.9 and a very different person - we also tried a different nursery and this one seemed to work well. How old is your boy? Maybe you could do what we did and use a childminder for 6 months to help get him used to being looked after by others, then try a different nursery when he's a bit older. good luck.

Clarinet60 · 31/10/2002 20:17

Thanks enid, 'glad' we aren't the only ones. He's 3 now. I think we will try again soon.

Lindy · 31/10/2002 22:32

To change tack slightly - does anyone agree that many childminders are grossly underpaid &, IMO, doing a professional job for a lousy wage & in danger of being abused? This probably goes for many nursery staff too.

I am being hypocritical here as I do use a childminder one morning a week (and I am a SAHM - no doubt this makes me a very, very bad mum!,)she is a friend & she charges £2.50 per hour which she insists is the 'going rate'. I think this is appalling, I was happily paying a cleaner £7 an hour & my young babysitter receives £3 per hour.

I do appreciate 'supply & demand theories' but it seems that many women (mostly mums) can't get any other sort of employment that fits in with their home & family so become childminders and then have to accept very low wages.

WideWebWitch · 31/10/2002 22:35

Lindy, yes. I've said before that I agree with Naomi Wolf, who says that childcarers are cheap as they're competing with the ultimate cheap labour: mothers. And you are not a bad mother for paying a childminder and being a SAHM, far from it.

florenceuk · 31/10/2002 22:38

Just to say, hope I didn't upset anyone. Reference to MMR was meant to be lighthearted. Trouble is, I think that expressions of "IME, all purely personal and only meant to be referring to me" opinions often come across as "I can't believe you don't do xx as well" - which is quite natural. Rhubarb, I don't think anybody was trying to understate the trauma of leaving crying child at nursery - I left this morning with DS wailing at the door. And I think it is understandable, if she doesn't know anyone there or dislikes the environment. I hope you are able to find a solution soon - in an ideal world you'd have access to flexible and affordable childcare close to home, with somebody you and DD knew and trusted.