Midwife has referred us to Social Services

[Nixina]

I'm looking for some information about our future.

DH and I are doing well financially, I've got a very good job, he's self employed. We have a decent home and garden in a good neighbourhood, and are both well educated.

However at booking when I filled out the questionnaire about us the midwife was a bit concerned and had me fill out a more detailed form about our relationship. My score was low, but the items raised about DHs behaviour to me and our pets when he was depressed and suicidal a few years back had her raise me with her safeguarding lead, and now they want to involve social services.

I'm just wondering if anyone can give me some insight into what to expect.

@TracyMosby

correct - concern that he was going to commit suicide due to how he had just behaved towards me, and that he had considered suicide the previous time we had had an argument a few months before

This is a common tact by abusers. This is not an excuse. It is further levels of abuse.

I was not aware. Although this does seem to fit other things :(

Would he actually let a doctor believe this if it wasn't true?

He used physical force against you.
He used physical force against your defenceless dog.
He projects his negative emotions on you and effectively emotionally blackmails you to think he regrets his abusive behaviour and feels suicidal, neither of which are likely to be true. It's plain manipulation.
He gives you silent treatment.
You're scared of his reaction when he hears you told a SW about his behaviour.

Why are you bringing a child into this relationship?

You can't protect yourself, he's got you wrapped around his finger.
You can't protect your dog.
You are justifying his behaviour when there are no excuses.

Are you truly blind?

@Nixina you sound so detached like an observer looking in on your home life, rationalising things. It may be your nature. My friend was like this in her marriage in her case she was on medication to cope with life so had checked out mentally.

I am glad SS are involved the person you spoke may have an unfortunate turn of phrase that put your hackles up but their heart is in the right place mostly.

You are a Scientist and seem to be analysing the likely impact of this man's behaviour as if it is all some kind of experiment. As a PP said perhaps this is simply the way you approach things but the comment about not allowing the baby to be hurt so as to ensure you do not go to prison sent a chill down my spine.

I think, in time, you’ll come to see that being honest with the midwife and social services was the best decision you’ve ever made op.

I don't want this to be a bad post for OP to read, but regarding the shaking- (TW abuse)

OP, recently there was a couple who were arrested and subsequently jailed for child abuse. One/both of them shook their baby so hard that the poor little man was left with profound disabilities, blind in both his eyes and with brain damage. The other two children were also abused, although not to the same extent.

I would imagine this is exactly why SS are taking this stance with you. I am not saying for a second your husband would do that, but that's the outcome if SS gets it wrong (like they did with that couple).

They have to take this sort of thing very seriously. Again, I'm not saying your husband is anything like those vile creatures, but you need to work with SS and if he shows even a glimmer of abusive behaviour, towards any pets, you, children... you have to leave. And yes, the 'suicidal' feelings are commonly used by abusers to garner sympathy and to distract from their behaviour. It is emotional manipulation and abusive. It's also incredibly easy to fake and faking it to a Dr would easily help cover his tracks and get you back onside.

There are tonnes of support materials on here which would be worth reading.

Be safe and I hope everything works out for you and your loved ones.

No I'm not worried he'll hurt me or anything that bad, as I said to the SW, I think at worst it may lead to the silent treatment for a few days whilst he feels hurt and betrayed

I’m confused by this. According to you

He knows his past behaviour was out of order
He knows he committed a criminal offence against you
He knows you are pregnant

Why would he feel hurt and betrayed that health and social services are-concerned about the welfare of his pregnant wife and unborn child?

Who Would he Think has betrayed him ?

Why would he ignore you for days when you were the victim and you are vulnerable ?

You say you are a scientist yet you seem unable to grasp the basics of a risk assessment. Your current approach of arguing with the SW and trying to prove then wrong is not a good one.

They have had years of listening to women tell them why it really was their own fault and why the poor man couldn’t help it because reasons.

Most victims of domestic violence are just like you - they can leave but they choose not to because they believe deep down that’s it’s their fault. And as long as they can do / not do / whatever / then everything will be ok.

They just need to keep everything under control and not upset him and he will be that lovely man they know he really is.

The problem is that babies don’t know that and they often do things like cry that make volatile and abusive people very angry.

Can you really truly not see why SS might think that there’s a certain level of risk here?

Can’t you see that your saying “ Ah but you need to see it from his point of view and then you will see that his reaction was understandable / justified “ is another red flag?

Please please listen to the social workers and work with them.

He does something bad and you/the dog are the victim of that behaviour. The best way he knows to make sure he isn't in trouble and to make himself seem like the victim is to say he is suicidal. As a pp said, it distracts from what he is done...suddenly what just happened to you or the dog is no longer a priority because he is suicidal.

Even if he was suicidal over his behaviour, that is no reason at all for you or anyone to stay with him and put up with it, or to ever put a baby at risk. But let's face it, saying he is suicidal when he isn't is a classic abuser tactic as mentioned, and I don't think lying to a doctor about it would pose any obstacle.

I am sorry OP, but your updates do start to fill in a picture. I am so glad you were honest with the midwife, well done on that. Hopefully you can now get the support you need, and make sure you get a chance to speak to social services alone and reach out for any more help you need.

I was not aware. Although this does seem to fit other things :(

What other things you have in mind?

Ok this is going to be personal so I NC for this. My not so dear dad was like your husband. My mum was a wonderful person and never left him. She was protecting me when he was around, but she wasn't around at all time. Everything could set him off, I closed the door too loudly, he would scream in my face and hit me. I dropped the glass of water and he threw me across the room. When I was a few years old I hid in the wardrobe until mum was back as I was too scared of him. I had to learn to walk on the eggshells. I have an anxiety as an adult and I only said the past to my husband and now on the anonymous forum. Please leave him before the baby arrives.

Gosh op I can understand why this has come as a shock to u. From the outside looking in it's no surprise at all and it's a good thing situations like this get highlighted early on a supported

18months ago your partner was abusive and unsafe for an adult and a pet to be around.... so only 2 years after this behaviour a newborn screaming baby is going to be added into the mix. Your focus then will not be able to be on keeping your partner calm so he can deal with things in the right way. You will be dealing with a baby and their needs come first as you fully appreciate but how will u be able to "manage" your partner at the same time.

His actions are extremely dangerous. Potentially fatal to a baby

Listen to SS and your MW. Try and step back and imagine you are looking IN at the situation. You are in the middle of the situation and it's much harder to see things as they actually are from that position.

Sorry about your DH and his previous behaviour to your pets

But the stigma about rich and poor is really sad.

I live in a naice posh area with horrid neighbours. I’m looking to move to a council estate because the community is safe and welcoming.......

I’ve been having a quick think @Nixina. I think the best thing for you to do is to accept the situation and accept help & advice if and when SS offer it.

All SS want to do is keep you and your baby safe. Just don’t fight them. They’ll probably do regular checkups / check ins with you.

You, SS and the baby are on the same team. Xx

SS probably do sound insensitive and bossy - because they’ve seen it all before / understand his mentality / being pragmatic about the risk.

Keeping you and baby safe is serious stuff.

Hope you’re ok love

No I'm not worried he'll hurt me or anything that bad, as I said to the SW, I think at worst it may lead to the silent treatment for a few days whilst he feels hurt and betrayed.

Why are you pandering to an abuser? He'll give you the silent treatment because he feels hurt and betrayed? He's the victim is he? You're the one who is being put through this because of his behaviour. You're the one who should feel angry, hurt and betrayed. He's really done a number on you and got you right where he wants you and you still can't bloody see it.

Your DP shook and shouted at the dog not because he thought in advance it made sense, but because he lost control of himself and took his feelings out on the dog for no real reason other than uncontrolled anger and frustration. That seems dangerous in the context of caring for a baby.

Not normalising DH behaviour here ... just saying I can see why some people are saying the 2 may not be linked.

Actually, you’ve cherry picked the couple of folks who’ve said they think that and ignored the majority who’ve pointed out that’s it’s a huge red flag around self-control and frustration, then started creating a narrative to highlight why the exceptions are in your mind potentially correct.
It speaks for itself I’m afraid.

correct - concern that he was going to commit suicide due to how he had just behaved towards me, and that he had considered suicide the previous time we had had an argument a few months before

This is a common tact by abusers. This is not an excuse. It is further levels of abuse.

I was not aware. Although this does seem to fit other things

Would he actually let a doctor believe this if it wasn't true?

Absolutely, very common. Excellent common tactic for turning around the situation and attention, provide himself with an excuse in his own mind and absolve him. He is now the ‘victim’ deserving of looking after and has a fall back if he loses control in the future. It’s known as 'setting up the mad not bad defense.'

Another way of looking at it is that men who discover they aren’t getting their own way who need that control over others to feel ok, used to threaten to kill or harm to control others. Now that’s an offence in itself, the more intelligent ones move towards threatening suicide or self harm. Some do it consciously, others instinctively.

You do come across as at best, very detached.
A lot of people here are trying to help you see what things look like from outside. They aren't misguided fools who don’t understand all the possible evidence and weighed it up, they're people who can see giant red flags around what you see as normal, excusable etc and his and your behaviors.
There may well be some degree of 'Chinese whispers' in the handing over of information. There often is. It’s hugely problematic as it then gets unto a fight over that, instead of the actual issues. Consequently SW’s want to ignore it, which is confusing for parents.

I feel rotten saying this, but all your reactions on here say you are going to need additional help. Whether your SS is equipped to provide it or not, work with them, and please take all the help you can in understanding parenting and children (and animal’s) needs from all available sources. You’re starting out a lot further behind the starting line than you want or need to be, but you made the right move in being honest about what's gone on, and you can change things.

Too many people blaming the OP here and asking why she stays. She is the victim.

@slipperyeel

Too many people blaming the OP here and asking why she stays. She is the victim.

It is not blaming OP is too help her to realise that the behaviour is not normal and her response is minimalistic. I believe she doesn't realise that the baby comes with the sleep deprivation and it is not easy to take care of yourself and the baby not mentioning the husband that behaves like aggressive toddler. She is a victim but she needs to take steps to safe guard herself and the baby.

OP, I’m a scientist, I look at things logically and over analyse them as well, let’s look at the facts here. He has been physically and emotionally abusive to you and your dog as he cannot control his temper. You didn’t leave him then, so logically speaking, why would anyone think if he is abusive again to you or your baby, that you will leave him? Instead you seem to be taking some responsibility for his abuse and moderating your behaviour to try and prevent him from becoming enraged and abusive again.

This is a red flag, as you should know that him being abusive is not your fault, and also he’s not really changed if you’ve had to change your own behaviour to not “trigger him”, why should the victim of abuse have to prevent their own abuse? This may work reasonably well at the moment, although it’s not because you’re treading on eggshells, but you cannot control the behaviour of a baby or child.

We know that even those with no history of anger problems or abuse have their patience tested to its absolute limits by a baby and a child, so logically, how will someone with anger management problems and who has been previously abusive (who is only not abusive now because his victim has had to moderate her behaviour as to not trigger him) cope? You can’t stop a baby crying, you can’t always stop a child from having tantrums or making a mess, or misbehaving etc. Are you going to constantly be supervising him with your child to make sure he’s keeping his cool and won’t lose his temper? It’s not logically possible to do this.

I think you know this deep down, but you don’t want to give up on him and the relationship and you want to believe he is a changed man when all the evidence suggests he isn’t.

Please listen to this. ^^. You're in danger, therefore so is your child. You need to end this and protect them.

I’ll just be another voice here OP saying that this doesn’t sound right. What about you in all of this? When he held you down and the police got involved, you just talk about how you were concerned for HIS mental health. What about yours, being treated like that by someone who should love and protect you? How do YOU feel
When he refuses to speak for you, when you have to word things to avoid making him angry or upset?

The problem is, if you can’t centre yourself in your relationship, you will be unable to centre yourself child. So your child will be at risk. I say this as someone who was that child, and it has left me with mental health problems and a view of the world that has taken me my whole life to try and fix. Please work with SS as they really do want to help you here.

How about trying a little experiment. Be a bit stroppy for a while. Tell him you need support because you feel stressed by pregnancy. Do small things he does not like but that don't matter in the grand scale of things. See how he reacts. Then you'll know what help to request from the midwife and social worker.

Maybe you can tell them all about how you no longer manage his moods, how you allow yourself to be a bit selfish and expect him accommodate your whims from time to time (as you do for him a lot), how you don't try to fix his sadness. Then how he was absolutely fine, not a sulk, not a threat, not a strop, not a depression in sight. You started behaving like a normal woman not a controlled woman and he reacted by acting like a normal man. I think you know that won't be the outcome though. Still, you could try it.

@slipperyeel

Too many people blaming the OP here and asking why she stays. She is the victim.

You're seeing blame, I'm seeing women who know about this desperately urging an OP who seems not to understand the danger she and her unborn are in to grasp the realities of her situation and get the fuck out whilst she still can.

OP I think you have been under your partner's control for so long that you've lost sight of what is acceptable behaviour.

Almost every person on here, especially those with professional experience, are saying that it sounds like you are still in an abusive situation and that you need to protect your baby. That means you have to be absolutely truthful with SS and work with them.

You are saying your partner will feel betrayed that you have told the midwife about the past. If he truly cared about you and the baby he would also want to work with SS. and take any advice he could about how to ensure he doesn't harm the baby.

I'm a social worker and although I now work with older people I have previous experience of working in Child Protection. I am in a very stable and happy marriage but when ds1 was born I was not prepared for the strain a newborn puts on a relationship. We had more arguments in the first 3 months of ds' life than we had had in the previous 3 years. The stress of a new baby plus sleep deprivation and (in my case) Post Natal Depression was awful. You say your partner is much better now, although only because you have to keep him calm. A screaming baby may well trigger his anger. He only has to shake the baby once to cause irreparable brain damage. Anyone who is capable of screaming in the face of a dog and shaking it is also capable of doing so to a baby.