Midwife has referred us to Social Services

[Nixina]

I'm looking for some information about our future.

DH and I are doing well financially, I've got a very good job, he's self employed. We have a decent home and garden in a good neighbourhood, and are both well educated.

However at booking when I filled out the questionnaire about us the midwife was a bit concerned and had me fill out a more detailed form about our relationship. My score was low, but the items raised about DHs behaviour to me and our pets when he was depressed and suicidal a few years back had her raise me with her safeguarding lead, and now they want to involve social services.

I'm just wondering if anyone can give me some insight into what to expect.

What possessed you to get pregnant with this vile man? I don't buy into all the oh hes so depressed and suicidal shit. I'm chronically depressed, i would never ever lay a hand on an animal, child or human being. Because I'm not an aggressive or violent person.

I know it's too late to take back the pregnancy but you need to now focus on getting away from him, and setting up a safe life for your baby. It's your job to protect them.

You and the baby are in SERIOUS danger
You have made a really dangerous choice having a baby with him but you're in an abusive relationship so I appreciate that making choices is more difficult but you really must act to make the baby safe. Surely you can see that a man who can scream in the face of a dog when it wants attention is a massive massive risk to a baby?

No wonder they made the referral. You are normalising his appalling behaviour OP
You need to realise your own worth, sharpish.

@Nixina

I haven't run away, I tried to reply yesterday when I saw the notifications flooding my inbox but cannot get on the site on my mobile, so had to dig out the laptop.

I'm actually overwhelmed by how quickly MN replies compared to forums for other stuff! Wow.

I have read all 147 posts. Thank you to all the helpful people who have given me insight into the SS process as asked, and for all the advice I have received.

My initial post was to try and get some insight into what would happen, I can add some detail if that gets me more help. He has never hurt us. I would call his behaviour during his depression rage, and I would say that he always used to behave like a spoiled toddler, for the entire time we had been together. I just ignored this and didn't give in. We didn't argue so much as he yelled at me, threw things, slammed doors, stormed off an and then gave me the silent treatment much like a child. When he was enraged if the dog tried to get attention he would pick it up and scream in its face. I may have mentioned shaking it slightly at the last appointment, and that may be what prompted the SS referral, but I'm not even sure I remember that correctly anymore as it was 2 years ago. 18 months ago he was screaming at me and didn't think I was listening, so grabbed me and held me down which scared me. He then left and since he had done that to me I was thought he was about to commit suicide so called the police out of concern for his life and ended up having to tell them what he had just done. They came to see me and sent me a 'victim leaflet' and suggested he got counselling. I didn't file charges, in fact didn't think that warranted a police report. My line manager and boss know about this, but they didn't report it to up to Safeguarding.

There was no way I was having a baby with him whilst he displayed this behaviour. We have worked together and he is a more calm rational adult now, non of the childish behaviour. He doesn't shout, we try to keep him calm so we can talk things through. He hasn't picked up and screamed at the dog for 2 years. He knows his behaviour was wrong.

He hasn't spiralled down during the pregnancy, in fact it's having the opposite effect as he wants a family and is good with other kids.

We are not well-off (doing well just meant no current debts), I cannot afford maternity leave beyond my company's 2 month OccyPay. We do not live in an affluent area - the council estate abuts my road but it's not a problematic area. I know being poor doesn't = social services, we both grew up in working class families well below the poverty line so we learned the value of hard work and scrimping rather than spending. I was merely pointing out the facts about our lives for completeness so that people could give me relevant advice compared to other SS referrals I've read about. I do not appreciate all the judgement, it says more about the biases you all have towards 'council estates' and poor/'well-to-do' people than me.

Your minimising what he did and now walking on egg shells around him so he does not fly off into another rage. The moment he pinned you down is the moment you should of left him. Sorry @Nixina SS of course will be concerned, do not ever minimise his behaviour.

Jesus OP depression is no excuse for aggression and if a fucking man abused my dog like yours did he would be straight out the door never to return!
This we try to keep him calm so we can talk things through. worries me also. It sounds like you are appeasing him to stop him lashing out. He sounds absolutely awful and I’m so glad social services will be keeping a close eye on you.

[quote GaiaLady]@Yoloyohol lessons have been learned. [/quote]
How frightening for future children that you think that. The same mistakes are being made now as were 40 years ago.

@Alwaysinpain

OP why on earth did you tell the midwife all that??? Big mistake.

Social services are now very likely to say to you that if you don't leave him, then they'll apply for an order to take your baby at birth.

Apologies for being blunt but it's very, very likely now I'm afraid

The problem with that is what?

Oh Jesus. Having read your second post your baby is at serious risk of abuse.

I agree that your baby is at risk

Maybe he shook the dog, maybe he didn’t.

The point is, you thought he did.

It only takes the once and it could be that one time that kills your baby.

I'm glad that the midwife acted appropriately and hope that you will leave this abusive man

The most concerning thing is that I get the impression that you think your post explains his behaviour and should put to bed the concern people have. Far from it, it gives people chills. The way you normalise seriously abusive behaviour is hugely worrying. If you can't see danger for what is how can you protect your baby from it?

What social services have probably done is read between the lines

What you put on those forms won’t be the full story and they know it

People who are having a baby with someone don’t tend to put down their worst character traits

Why do women poke up with such vile men!! Absolutely disgusting behaviour ! No wonder ss are involved ! Poor bloody dog he has no choice !!

Your midwife did the right thing as your partner is abusive.
Domestic abuse can increase during pregnancy and after the birth.
If you can not see that your partner has been abusive in the past then I am afraid you are putting your baby at risk, stop minimising his behaviour.
Wake up OP.

you need to get away from him, your poor dog, you need to protect your baby too.

Nixina Lot's of people are rightly looking at a worst case scenario from your DH and they're right to do so, but it's worth looking at it from the point of view that he's 'a nice guy with previous history of rage out bursts' as well because I suspect you're reading peoples concerns and thinking 'but it's not like that with us,' so I'm writing this taking your view of him as correct.

You are automatically minimizing and that's of concern.
I do actually understand; he's behaved differently, things seem so totally under control, he's happy about the pregnancy, looking forward, want's to be a dad, is good with others kids, seems more mature, and knows his previous behavior was wrong.
The problem is, the two of you have created a dynamic around 'managing' controlling his rage. So much is about him and his needs in order that others around him can have the better parts of him.
So giving the benefit of the doubt that he's genuinely matured a lot, while there's a lot of dangers around him and a new born disruptive baby, it'll quiet probably go ok in the very early days when it's all new, different and exciting, but it's all going to be very sorely tested when routine set's in, especially when you have to return to work so soon.

You're going to have the baby and be back at work eight weeks later, trying to to manage being on time, child minders, drop offs, pick ups, home, dog, work, and his feelings about it all. (this is assuming you haven't decided he can look after the baby at home as he's SE.)
Having things organised around keeping him behaving well are going to naturally give, and that's when the baby, dog, and yourself are going to find out how much progress he has or hasn't actually made.
Any HCP or social worker worth their salt is going to rightly be very concerned about this.

These are the words of a judge summing up how and why a father accidentally killed his baby, not through any intentional brutality, just a momentary loss of control.
I've put them here because you seem very unaware, and regardless of the background of each case, the actual often momentary act that leads to brain damage or death is this simple and this sudden:

"You were tired after a full day at work and then being up through the night; and you were frustrated that XXXX would not settle"

(then describes call to ambulance service and their discovery baby had gone into cardiac arrest)

"The cause of this, as you finally acknowledged last week, was that you had suddenly assaulted him by compression of the rib cage, gripping and squeezing him from side to side; shaking him; and then throwing him into his Moses basket. You have not given any further detail about the immediate events but, as the Prosecution accepts, this assault was a sudden outburst of frustration with a crying child and must have been over within a very short period of time,perhaps a matter of seconds. However, its consequence was fatal."

They're my highlights. The baby sustained two fatal injuries, one from the momentary swift side to side motion, the other from the momentary slamming motion, either would have killed them, both took momentary loss of control.
This father had other red flags, but like many others who've killed or harmed their children, hadn't actually shown anger management issues or rage before.

Can you understand why there'd be serious concern around a man who has, whose partner seems to think it isn't that big a deal, and whose lack of instinctive compassion kicking in for a helpless animal irritating him, is already known?

Well you told the mw I wonder subconsciously do you want help to leave this man ? I do think from what you’ve said that he sounds unstable and potentially there is risk there.

I think you did the correct thing to disclose and I think you probably know this too. SS can help and protect you OP x

perhaps a matter of seconds didn't bold, and it's the bit you really need to absorb. It's that quick.

OP you’re in trouble if you truly believe you have any control over this man’s behaviour. Your baby and dog are helpless and have no control in this situation. Your baby is at risk. No minimising you’re way out of it.

*your

Id have kicked his arse out the second he abused my dog.

I think your DH has problems more serious than depression. Rage is usually the primary symptom of cPTSD, which is comorbid with (or also causes) depression and suicidal ideation.

I’d at very least welcome SS involvement and encourage your DH to get serious long term counselling on the root cause of the depressive episodes.

People with mental conditions can with treatment learn to ground themselves and better manage the emotional roller coaster which leads to the door slamming, screaming, toddler thought patterns, etc.

I agree with PP, that you should be ready to leave him now or the instant any of the abusive behaviour emerges. My advice is if you do decide to stay, then 1) keep SS involved and 2) get him long term counselling because a PP was right, depression by itself doesn’t cause that behaviour. It’s something deeper that is also cause depression, and from experience I’m guessing cPTSD.

I once did physio for a sweet infant who was blind and deaf, and would never learn to walk or talk and who had seizures every day. His father who was apparently usually calm natured had impulsively shaken him during a relentless crying episode. Every parent with a newborn will be sleep deprived from weeks/months of broken sleep, and a period of uncontrollable crying has tipped a lot of parents over the edge. Your partner has already done this with an innocent animal and you, so is high risk. So the referral makes sense as a precaution.