SAHMs...would you encourage your daughters to SAHM or WOHM ?

[mozhe]

I ask out of genuine interest....people have often said to me that I became a committed WOHM because I had such a strong model in my own mother....and I would certainly be very disappointed if one of my own daughters chose to be a SAHM.
SAHMs what do you think ? And why ?

oh paula.

so if she doesn't find a partner/get married or does but then is childless/ gets divorced then she has failed in her life's ambition?

really

Sorry but until men can give birth this is the way it is! Not quite sure why people think otherwise - surely that purpetuates the myth that we can all be the same.
Women will, if they want kids, stop for a period of time however short and the impact of that can be harsh.
Happiness - if we could all be happy living on fresh air then we would but sadly we can't!

How have I misunderstood you Princess? And exactly who on this thread is being judgemental and telling others how to live their lives?

there is always a risk that someone might not get to fufill their life's ambition. Thats no reason to deter her. If your daughter wanted to be an olymipc runner you wouldn't deter them because they might lose the ability to walk

Xenia, your views absolutely astound me. What planet do you live on??????

"But what on earth is the point in all that education...?"

ARGGHHHH!!!! I pity your daughters if this is your attitude.

Again, and weirdly, I find myself agreeing with Xenia at least partially. We pay our taxes (at least some of us do) to fund a woman through school, university and 5 years + of medical training to become a GP and then after a couple of years work she has children and never returns to work. Although she may do a great job of bringing up her family (as 100s of other women do while working outside the home) I can't help but think that all that training and tax payers money has been wasted. Again, it's a personal thing but I have been brought up (as I hope I'm bringing up my daughters) to think that we all have a responsibility to others and society as a whole as well as just ourselves and our families and our neighbours.

p.s. there are a few posters here who are all the same person and you know who you are. You all make the same simply grammatical error repeatedly (on this and in other threads) quite amusing, really, that you cannot make a point alone and stand by it without inventing cheerleaders. Tut tut.

I will encourage mine to work hard at school and hopefully further education and get a job she enjoys.

If she then wants to have a family and give up then thats up to her. Or if she wants to return to work I will hopefully be in a postion to help her with childcare to a certain extent.

Her choice

WHO SHOULD RAISE OUR CHILDREN THEN?????? WHO???? If it's not women it will be men, if its not one or the other, its both. The business world needs to get with reality. You speak as if procreation is some huge incovneiencce to capitalism? FFS, don't make me laugh!!!

The argument is specious and artificial because as I have shown, the division of women into SAHM and WOHM is - for the HUGE majority of women - totally artificial. Women aren't born as one or the other, but instead weave their working lives around the rest of their life, moving in and out of the workplace. Yes, of course you earn less working part time rather than full time in the same job - that's not exactly difficult to work out - but for many of us, this is no sacrifice. And as I also pointed out, I know a lot of women my age without children who also choose to work part time, to take time out of work, to develop portfolio careers and to set up their own businesses. I think this is very much a woman thing rather than just a mother thing.
I think reducing the loss of a human being and mother to a pawn in an argument for working full time without a break ever, is fairly distasteful tbh. Is she bitterly regretting not having spent more time at the office right now? I doubt it. Why not tell her directly where she has gone wrong. I bet she'd appreciate it.

What an incredibly sensible post, Aloha. Thank you.

I note that my point about the fact that b&wc's colleague's experience would be a bog standard one in terms of the financial implication, for most workers on an average wage, has still not been addressed.

I have a friend with MS who was a ft worker at a reasonably well paid job (above the average anyway) for about 20 years. She's absolutely poor now because the money she'd accrued from working has run out and sickness protection doesn't last forever.

Working does not usually protect families from terrible financial burdens when sickness strikes - as PPH says, sickness insurance is bloody expensive and full of exclusions and lots of people on average incomes don't have it. Proper state financial support is needed in this sort of scenario. It has nothing to do with SAHMdom and WOHMdom.

Oh dear Aloha, I obviously didn't express myself very clearly. Research says that there is a 40% pay gap between men and women in part-time work per hour. In other words the average woman who works part-time earns 40% less than the average woman who works part-time. And the pay gap between men and women in full-time work is 17%. And yes, you're right that there are probably not a huge amount of women who never do paid work but nearly half of all women (or over half depending on which stats you believe) take some time off paid work to have kids. This might be 1 year but it might be 16. This has a huge impact on women's earnings, family life, tax payers money, women's economic worth and society. These points are not 'specious', they are not 'artificial', they are not 'spurious' they are incredibly important.

This is from written evidence given the house of commons from the medical women's federation - rather giving the lie to the misogynistic 'women shouldn't be educated because they don't deserve it' school of thought.

"The majority of doctors graduating from medical schools in Great Britain are women, in recent years over 65%. These young women have achieved their places at medical school in open competition and continue to distinguish themselves academically and professionally through their training and the early stages of their careers. Like other women in contemporary society the majority of them marry and have families, two-thirds of women doctors have children by their mid-30s, a stage when most will still be in training posts. However several studies over the years have shown a high level of continued commitment to a career in Medicine and the majority continue to make significant contributions to the NHS, provided they can maintain their links to the NHS as trainees and career post doctors who are employed with a less than full time commitment during the comparatively few years when they have responsibilities for the care of young children. The majority of them then return to full time employment and remain professionally active years later than many of their male colleagues. "

"It might be one year, it might be 16"
Yes, it might be, but the statistics show, for the vast majority (80%) of women (and bear in mind, motherhood is not the only reason for lack of employment by any means) it is NOT 16 years. You are getting terrible upset by the choices of, say, 10% or less of the female population.

So that means that women who work part time are at fault, rather than employment law and practice?

Change the word 'woman' to 'black person' or 'disabled person' or any other category of person and see how ridiuculous that sounds. Bbut because we're talking about mothers here, suddenly we can shift all the blame for the inequalities in society on to them: they are at fault if they must choose to work part time in order to care for their children, and tas a result they will suffer and it'll be all their own doing.

How absolutely ridiculous.

I address that last point to blackandwhitecat

go aloha

Having children when you are in the civil service - Doctor etc is simple as it is so bound up in legislation that flexi working etc is possible. If I had my time again, believe me I would have choosen a public sector route and would actively recommend it to any women. I almost cry with laughter when I hear the countless stories from friends - oh I now job share, or I can work until 4.00 and have school holidays off... in the private sector that is impossible to maintain.
I have my own business so that I can work round my child. It is certainly demented sometimes, important calls when wiping bottoms! But I cannot be ill, get maternity cover or should it go tits up, get state help.
So I can't do what I did before and had better make what I do now work otherwise - ooops. Oh yes I know, I'll be happy with no income but at least I'll be a SAHM!!!!

I absolutely think that if you want children, think about a career that will let you fit both into your life if you suspect that you won't want to work day and night when you have them. But tbh, I think young women today do think like this. I get students of 20 asking me about journalism and motherhood.

I adore wohm...it keeps me sane and I'm lucky to have an interesting job. Having been piss poor for most of my life I also like the feeling of being able to earn money. Like MI and others I had a REALLY frustrated SAHM who was miserable and angry.
I would like my dds to have good jobs that they love and to be happy. I haven't thought further than that as they are still so young, and I think the challenges they will face in their lives will be very different from the ones we face, so the question may not arise in the same way, iyswim.

I'm finding it difficult to understand how you can be so obtuse and insensitive Squirrel. Let me try to explain again.

My colleague and his wife are both teachers by profession. The wife has been a SAHM for about 4 years since having her first child. During this time the whole family has coped on 1 teacher's wage (his). They have a mortgage, a car, shopping to pay for. During this time they have used up their savings, they decided they didn't want to pay for life assurance, critical illness etc (after all they're young, they've been healthy and the wife always intended to return to work)

If my colleague's wife was still working she would get at least 6 months six pay (granted 6 months isn't a huge amount. I imagine it's worth about 15 grand but that money could have paid for childcare etc and as it is they have no spare cash), they would have had a childminder, they probably would have had some money in the bank and probably made some provision for life assurance, critical illness etc. If she died he would get her pension as death in service.

As it is, my colleague is having to take time off work to look after the kids (he can't fully support his wife because he has to look after 2 under 4s). He cannot afford childcare on 1 salary and hasn't got time to find suitable childcare. Also what childminder or nursery takes kids now and
then on an ad hoc basis?

If his wife dies there will be no life assurance, there will be no death in service. He will either have to pay for childcare out of his one salary or give up his job.

Aloha, I think it's you who is misinterpreting the stats. It may be 80% of women who are working (although that's not what I've seeen) but only 50% odd of mothers with children under the age of 18 and less if you are looking at mothers with children under 4.

How totally bizarre Loveangel. Who mentioned anything about fault? I think it's shocking that there is still such a huge pay gap between men and women and especially between men and women who work part time. One of the causes for this discrepancy is that so many women take time off paid work to have children and then find it difficult to return to employment and compete with colleagues who have not taken time off. There are many reasons why this may be the case. It could be that their knowledge and skills are now out of date, it could be because of the prejudices of their employers, it could be because they now need to work part-time to fit in with school hours and therefore can't take jobs with the same sort of responsibility or travel requirements as their childless colleagues... This is nobody's fault. These are just things that SAHMS need to consider before making their decision to stay at home.