If you've given up work outside the home to be with the kids, are you happy with the decision?

[jeangenie]

Has anyone on here given up work to stay at home with the kids, even though it meant a financial struggle? How do you feel about the decision now?

(am considering this at the moment,trying to make myself hold back until I'm certain, but finding it hard to restrain myself this morning for some reason...)

Mummydear, I think you're missing the concept of what an EXAMPLE is. I can't list all of the jobs which can be done around school hours because there isn't space or time and I've got better things to do. Better perhaps for you to tell me jobs that can't be done around part-time hours. If there are obstacles (which I know there are) to flexible working then a lot of these will come from the employers and employees themselves, from prejudices and psychological issues and so on. I'm not naive enough to beleive these obstacles are not there but they need fighting. It's what unions are for and the courts and actually there have been a number of high-profile court cases where WOHMS have successfully sued their employers for failing to provide flexible hours.

"Mummydear, I think you're missing the concept of what an EXAMPLE is"
Now THAT is an example of why you are rubbing people up the wrong way B&WC.

No I am not missing the point of an EXAMPLE , there are jobs that pople can work around school hours but the examples you gave reach the minority .

Some jobs B&WC are not 9 to 5 and can be diffcult to fit into school hours we have to be realsitic about that.

'would question their ability if they had to rush off and collect children from school'

Actually, as I've said, I finish teaching at 2.30 and don't have to pick dd1 up till 3.15. It takes me 10 mins to get to the school at most so if I'm rushing that's because I'm stuck into work I'm actually not being paid for. Obviously I'm just a crap teacher then!! DP picks dd2 up after he finishes work. I'd also say that since the majority of mums and dads do actually do paid work and do presumably collect their kids from school as do most of the WOHMs and dads at dds school who also manage to be at the school gates with me, that's a hell of a lot of people whose ability to do their jobs you're questioning. I mean really, who do you think all these midwives, nurses, teachers, lollipop ladies, dinner-ladies, doctors, etc etc (these are EXAMPLES of the kinds of people you rely on) are? Do you think they're all childless? Or do you think they all do a crap job.

Kitty, it amazes me that you can make so many assumptions and unpleasant comments about me e.g. that I am 'smug and self-satisfied' and then say I AM NOT BEING NICE TO OTHERS.

The reason that I say that SAHMS whose kids are in school are not contributing to SOCIETY during the hours that their kids are in school by paying taxes or any other more visible way unless they do voluntary work etc etc except in the way that any WOHM or dad does AS WELL as doing paid work which does contribute to society (even if just through taxation) is simply because they don't. I am sure many SAHMS are nice people who do a fantastic job of looking after their families etc etc but they are not paying taxes and they are not contributing in any other visible way apart form by bringing up their families (which WOHMs and dads do too). That's a fact. If you are taking it as an insult then that says more about you (and possible insecurities about your situation) than what I have said.

just out of interest, how do lollipop ladies ( or men) combine their duties with he school run? I thought that they worked before and after school

and how do midwives do school hours and term time only? Babies have an annoying habit of arriving at any time of the day or night

'No I am not missing the point of an EXAMPLE , there are jobs that pople can work around school hours but the examples you gave reach the minority .'

OK, if you don't like driving instructors, teachers, teaching assistants, GPs, dinner-ladies how about:

hairdressers, librarians, waitresses, shop-keepers (the woman who owns my newsagent has 5 kids), gardeners, cleaners, business owners (e.g. Mumsnet), university lecuters, leisurce centre owners, car mechanics, painters and decorators. Do I need to go on?

'Some jobs B&WC are not 9 to 5 and can be diffcult to fit into school hours we have to be realsitic about that.'

If you read my posts I think you'll find I just said that myself (although I can actually only think of a handful of jobs where employers could legally say that they couldn't provide flexible arrangements can you?) but I also said that some of the obstacles employers and employees put in the way of flexible working need to be addressed or are often psychological.

'and how do midwives do school hours and term time only? Babies have an annoying habit of arriving at any time of the day or night '

I'm not a midwife so you might want to ask one but most of mine had school-aged children and worked flexibly (some at night). Presumbably they have supportive partners who do the night-shift with the children. Perhaps their partners could also work flexibly because of their family having a dual income...

Do you know what these are EXAMPLES of some of the many jobs that WOHMs can still do whilst picking their kids up from school. And do you know what there are v few areas which don't offer after-care. But, relax, I'm not and never have told you to get a job if you don't want to. All I said is most mums and dads find it possible to do paid work and still have kids. And perhaps we all should be a bit grateufl fo that.

B&WC, all I'm doing is reacting to the tone of your posts, your choice of language and your choice of phrase.
I am not insulted by anything you say personally.
As a language teacher you do know how your posts can be interpreted in the way that they are being. You choose to use the language and phrases you do and I assune you do it for a reason rather than it being a purely randomn choice.

You insistance that by not contributing through taxes a sahm is therefore not contributing in an equaly valuable way to a tax payer is just very short sighted frankly.

Kitty, 'You insistance that by not contributing through taxes a sahm is therefore not contributing in an equaly valuable way to a tax payer is just very short sighted frankly.'

There's probably not much point me saying it again but I'll try one last time.
SAHMs ARE contributing of course they are parenting is the most valuable thing we can do but if their kids are at school they are only contributing in the same way that I do or any otehr WOHM AS WELL AS CONTRIBUTING TO SOCIETY IN OTEHR WAYS. While your kids are at school and you are at home then you are not parenting them. If I stayed at home while my kids were at school there is no way that this would make me a better mother and there is no way that I would be paying taxes and there is no way I would be working for the benefit of others. It's posssible that my house might be a bit cleaner and I'd do a bit more cooking. Perhaps my family might benefit (although I really doubt it IN MY CASE since we'd lose an income, my dp would probably have to find a way to supplement his income to compensate for the loss of contribtions to my pension, the kids' university fees etc etc and I PERSONALLY would lose a lot of MY self-esteem etc etc) but if I wasn't working for other people and paying taxes then I wouldn't be helping others and I wouldn't be contributing to society.. It's beyond me how you can argue with this.
'

BWC -I think that you are changing your argument - of course people can "do paid work and still have kids" - they use after school and holiday clubs, nannies, parents, childminders, partners, grandparents etc to make it possible.

There are, however, very few jobs which fit into school hours and term-time only working as you were contending earlier "There are 1000s of men and women who do paid work around child-care (I know GPs, cleaners, teaching assistants, driving instructors and even a school head teacher"

I've only just come on this thread so am bringing up some of the older points.

"I worry more about that at work tbh as I am doing a job that doesn't really interest me, just pays ok money"

Maybe you should try a different job in the first instance and then see if that makes you feel any better? Maybe try a part time one or a temp one doing something different?

"I have a gazillion other interests that I would love some time/energy to pursue"

However - interests tend to involve money so if you're only going to have small amount of spending money each week you may not be able to persue them anyway.

Not meaning to belittle whoever I quoted from's comments, just merely adding an outside view. I didn't start work until my LO was at school (was a student up til that point). I really enjoy working & as I don't have an OH I can't really be a SAHM anyway, but I don't think I'd want to be. My mum worked intitially then gave up, but it made no difference in terms of how I thought of her. She was still my mum whether she worked or not.

This really is something that only you and your OH can decide what is best as it will vary considerably between each couple. However, with such a wide "audience" on mumsnet there are bound to be ideas mentioned that many people may not have considered.

B&WC said 'I am sure many SAHMS are nice people who do a fantastic job of looking after their families etc etc but they are not paying taxes and they are not contributing in any other visible way apart form by bringing up their families (which WOHMs and dads do too). That's a fact. If you are taking it as an insult then that says more about you (and possible insecurities about your situation) than what I have said. '

I think there is only one person round here who is insecure about their situation..

I do find your sommenst quite patronising B&WC - you are of course entitled to your opinion but it is the way you come across and judge those you know very little about.

I have ben a Working mum & SAHM and I am secure enough to say that I had a satifiying career up to the point where I had children . I am secure enough to say that I couldn't do my job as weel as I could after having children as I could before. I am secure enough to say that as I was unable to give 100% to my work and was fed up of juggling a very stressful and demanding job I choose to stay at home and support my husband in his career whilst he supported us financailly. I am secure enough to say that I was willingly to take on the role of mother , wife and homemaker , a role that in some sections of society is looked down upon.

Are you afraid of that role B&W C ?

No, there's no change. There are 1000s of men and women who do paid work which they fit around school hours. I've give you examples. I personally know many people who do this including myself and actually my dp who drops off and picks up dd2 while I do the same with dd1, my best friend who runs a website with her dp (she works 3 days, he works 4 days and their children go to nursery 1 day but once they're in school they will change their hours so that one of them is always with the children when they're not in school).a driving instructor is just one of the WOHMs whose dd is in my dd1's class at school, my babysitters etc etc.

But there are also 1000s of mums and dads who rely on child-care of many different sorts so may not be there at the school gates and may not be there during school holidays but still manage to work. I know some of these people too and I know many people who fall somewhere in between e.g. colleagues who use before and after school clubs but spend every minute of the school hols with their kids or parents who are at the school gates but use holiday clubs.

I see I have been given a "get out of jail free" card as I still have a child at home who isn't school age .. and won't be for a couple of years

Do you what B&W C I dont actually want to drop my kids off at breakfasts club and leave them in after school club and have to pay out for school holiday clubs.

I dont have family locally to help ick up, I enjoy being with my children after school and during school holidays , some of us Mums quite enjoy that !

If women dont need to work then let them be ! If women want to work and use child care before and after school then let them be !

Going back to your driving instructor mum - I have thought about that but as in my previous post it would have put us under even more of a financial strain. If people can work from home themn great all the better.

In the ideal world we would all be able to work child friendly hours , work from home etc ,but we do not live in an ideal world we live in the real world .

Twiglett

my "get out of jail card" is that I am a worthy memeber of the PTA, who's practically lived at school the past couple of weeks, what with Xmas craft projects, healthy lunches and refreshments to be served at the Xmas plays.

Blimely Iota sounds like my PTA , what would teachers do without us eh ?

mummydear

and tomorrow evening I will spend couple of hr wrapping presents from a certain someone who will be visiting school on Tues

along with several WOHM PTA members who are giving up their free time as well

Did that a week ago - had 200 to wrap up, plus turning a classroom into a grotto and catering for the children !

Its the teachers turn this week to give the children a party !

I think staying at home and looking after your children is the single most important job you can do-and furthermore it is your responsibility to do it-after all it was you who chose to have children. If you wanted to work and your career came first then in my opinion maybe you shouldn't have had children or at least you should have waited until you were prepared to put them first.

yes, but you still are not contributing to society so you are not really worthy people although you are probably very nice people. I'm afraid that is simply not good enough

'If women dont need to work then let them be ! If women want to work and use child care before and after school then let them be !'

I think you'll find that's what I've been saying the whole way along. You don't need a get out of jail care ladies, I've never told you and wouldn't dream of telling you what to do. Count the number of times I've said everyone has to work out what's right for them on this thread!!

Look, if I met a woman who told me she was a stay at home mum and her kids were in school and she was happy with it I'd say that's great I'm happy for you. If I met a woman whose kids were in school and didn't do anything with that time to benefit others except her own family in the way that any mother does who said I'm a stay at home mum and the world's a better place for it I would find that hard to believe.

Many SAHMs including some on this thread are happy to admit that they are SAHMs because they like it, they are privileged enough to remain financially secure and they have chosen to put what they consider to be their own needs and those of their families at the present time first. I have no problem with that, it's just not for me. I personally feel the need for all kinds of reasons (some to do with what I PERSONALLY need to feel fulfilled, some about my own and my family's long-term financial security and some to do with my sense that I have a responsibility to help others and contribute to society through taxation and through helping x student achieve x result which will enable him or her to get to x university or x student to improve her or his basic literacy to get a job or get more out of life or whatver).

I have never criticised any one else for who they are or for the choices they have made. I have never told anyone else what to do. I have never insulted anyone else. I have never said that my way is the right way or the best way.

actually B&Wcat I've enjoyed reading your posts .. you've managed to express an opinion without denigrating others which is always an admirable trait and one that it would behove others to emulate IMHO

as a SAHM I'm also a school Governor and member of PTA so have my sense of social responsibility fulfilled as well .. as for contributing through taxes .. I worked for a long way and earnt quite a good salary ... I think I've paid enough tax for a lifetime

By the way just to remind you that although I am a WOHM I still manage to spend all the time thay my dds are not in school (before and after school and in school holidays) with them as does my dp (except for when he is picking up dd2 and bringing her home and i am picking up dd1 and bringing her home). I also manage to contribute to the PTA. I also manage to help all of the children in dd1's class get changed for swimming. I also manage to go to a gym and drink coffee (which earlier posters suggested were activities strictly limited to SAHMs) amongst other things. You don't have to become a SAHM to be a good parent, an active member of your child's school etc etc.