If you've given up work outside the home to be with the kids, are you happy with the decision?

[jeangenie]

Has anyone on here given up work to stay at home with the kids, even though it meant a financial struggle? How do you feel about the decision now?

(am considering this at the moment,trying to make myself hold back until I'm certain, but finding it hard to restrain myself this morning for some reason...)

Kitty do you really think it is thought to be second best? My mother was a SAHM although she was a farmer's wife and spent many hours in the fields. She worked exceptionally hard and the one thing she drummed into us girls was the value of independence and having your own money. She was very unhappy and overworked (5 kids)and felt very very trapped. This alone propels me out to work.

Emkana

That is outrageous. Was that before the flexible working legislation?

drosophilia, on the issue of role models, my mum was also a SAHM who was adamant that I do not follow in her footsteps. She insisted that I get a good education, career and not depend on any man to support me. My father was not faithful (I believe) and although he provided for us generously, the feeling of insecurity has never left me. Like you, I refused to give up my job when I had dd. I still work pt and take great comfort from the fact that if dh is no longer around (whether divorce or death), I can easily gear up to support the children.

I am very happy with my decision to be a SAHM.

I was brought up by a single parent working mother and whilst my mother did her very best I really did want to SAH with my kids.

That being said, I am in a fortunate position that I am a Director of an IT Company, befriender for a charity and parent governor at a local school so do have enough intellectual stimulation as well as being at home with the children. Also, whislt of course we have cut back what with having only one salary, we do have one good salary which means I can take the kids here and there and we do not struggle financially.

I am not sure how much I would enjoy being a SAHM if I was stuck in all day and having to seriously budget for necessities, nevermind luxuries.

jeangenie, i have just decided not to return to woek at the end of my maternity leave next month. fortunately (?) my office moved last year and so i had the option of taking redundancy, which will probably ease the shock for a few months, but not long term. i have had a couple of major wobbles this week, particularly as 2 of my baby friends have just got jobs - one for 2 days and one for one and a half days. but i figure i could always return to work later, but wont have this special time with ds again. hope it works out for you.

Drosophila, I do think that it is scorned upon for women not to want to have a salaried career. I consider full time home making to be a career.
The thinking seems to be that this is what women have fought for so hard that it is almost a betrayal of that not to work.

I am so glad that there were women who fought for others in the future to have the choice.

There are some people here who obviously consider it better for their childen that they have a "working" mother as a role model.
You are no better a person if you work or sah, you do not contribute more. As someone mentioned earler the most impotant thing is that your children see you content. That is the best role model they can have.

I think on the question of role models - it's not so much an issue of setting an example, we all have to do what is best for our own family circumstances - but of giving our children the self-belief and confidence to make their own decisions.

drosophila - I'm not sure, when did that legislation come in?

But Rantaclaus your MIL though doing an admirable job of looking after her family no doubt was still not contributing to SOCIETY in the way I mean except in so far as most mothers contribute to society (i.e. by raising their children the best way they know how whether WOHM or SAHM). I appreciate not anybody feels that we do need to contribute in the way I feel we have a responsibility to (either by paying taxes or by contributing in a more tangible way by being a doctor or a policeman or a lollipop lady or whatever). That's just my view. By the way, don't get me wrong I'm not saying SAHMs are lazy, selfish or bad people. I'm sure there are as many wonderful SAHMs as there are WOHMs or anything else. I'm sure the majority do a fantastic job of bringing up children and looking after their families. I'm not expecting or asking you or anybody else to agree with me. There really is room for differences of opinion as there are different people doing different things. Also, things were different even 20 years ago let alone 50+. There were less opportunities for women to work and women were not encouraged to aspire to university, paid work etc. Today there are more young women going to university than men.

I also think you and mummydear (who said her being at home enabled her dp to do his paid work more easily) raise another interesting point. I wonder how many dads feel they need to compensate for their wives lack of earnings by working harder and longer hours and I wonder how many mums feel they need to compensate for their dp's absence by staying at home. Some (many?) of these families may find themselves better off AS A FAMILY (and not just financially) if mum worked some part time hours and dad worked less hours therefore allowing more FAMILY TIME, more time for mum to have a break from kids, more time for dad to be with kids on his own. In my view these things are desperately limited and desperately under-rated. While it may be hard for women to get flexible working arrangements it's even harder for men (even if just because of psychological barriers and prejudices rather than legal or contractual obstacles).

I also think the poster who said that you should think about parenting for the long haul. SAHMs may be pleased that they are able to spend every minute of the 1st 4 yrs with the babies but they may not be in a position to contribute to their pensions (therefore increasing the possibility that they will be a financial burden to their kids in their old age) and they may not be able to save for their kids' university fees (meaning, if their kids go to uni that they will leave with thousands of pounds of debt).

And in response to the thing on role models. OF course, our parents are our first and most important role models. YOu have to accept that most of the SAHMs on Mumsnet are speaking from relatively privilged posiitons. They have v often made a positive and calculated decision to leave an established career.

I teach many students who get pregnant at 16 or 17 with no dad on the scene, no qualifications and no experience of employment as many of their mothers did. Would you say this is a good role model? Would you be happy if this was your daughter? But the reality is that there are probablyt more SAHMs who started off in these circumstances and may never be able to provide financially (and often emotionally)for themselves or their children.

I am not saying that SAHMs daughters are goiing to follow this pattern but they WILL see paid work and child-care as highly gendered activities which will affect their perception of themselves and their futures. Obviously they can move away from these roles if they choose to and are supported to and obviously you may be happy if they choose to stay at home before or after establishing a career.

Pesonally, I would be quite happy if my dds chose to stay at home with thier kids at least in the short-term but only if they had established careeers, had loving and supportive partners and had considered and provided for the long-term financial security andhappiness of themselves and their families.

'I also think the poster who said that you should think about parenting for the long haul.' was absolutely right that should say.

Showing love and caring for your kids is not just about being at home for them.

Though obviously everyone has to weigh up their personal parenting priorities.

And finally for now, those of you who have said that I'm lucky with my circumstances I wonder if you would think that about my next door neigbour who worked as a dinner-lady druing all the years that her kids were at school. Therea re 1000s of men and women who do paid work around child-care (I know GPs, cleaners, teaching assistants, driving instructors and even a school head teacher). Obviously there are some jobs where this would be really difficult but legislation means that all employers have to consider requests for child freidnly hours and PROVE that they can't provide them if they refuse them. I think there's an ignorance of employees rights and a lack of desire or ability to fight for them.

B&WC said 'I also think you and mummydear (who said her being at home enabled her dp to do his paid work more easily) raise another interesting point. I wonder how many dads feel they need to compensate for their wives lack of earnings by working harder and longer hours and I wonder how many mums feel they need to compensate for their dp's absence by staying at home. '

B&WC my Dh has a demanding role in the police service which at times means he has to go abroad , he does not work regular hours or 9 to 5 , never has done, its not in his nature of his work.

I worked part time after both my children, I too wasa police officer nad worked shifts . I could have got a 9 to 5 just but this would have still involved childcare and care through school holidays, even though the police now offer term time working , howvever not all roles in the police are able to do this.

For me to carry on working in the police now that the children are at school then it would mean me finding a job that was school hours and term time and close enough to my home to allow me to do this. Working in one of biggest Police Force inthe counrty doesn't mean that you are living close to your place of work.

You have the ideal set up , both teachers , school hours, close to home . Dont knock the other important jobs that people have to do . Sacrifices sometimes have to be made when you have the children, I was prepaid to do that, I had a good career nearly spanning 20 yrs before giving it up, I think a fair contribtuion to society, worked since I was 18 yrs of age. By the was how long have you worked ?

When both of us were working and had children neither of us could give 100% to our jobs or family life . My attitide to my work changed when I had children changed, I was n't sitting in a cosy classroom full of middle class children everyday .I wasn't going to put my neck on the line for anyone and being in a supervisory role in the police had to do find time for staff apprisals etc which often did on my days off.

Please dont judge , I wouldn't want my Dh to give up his work, he enjoys it and is good at it ,whereas once I had children working in my chosen career brough no enjoyment to me.

Do you really think you can give 100& to your career ? Like you at certain times I had to be put of work on time to pick the children up , but not everyday like you it seesm. What happens when a parent wants to discuss an issue with you after school ? You are not there as you leave quickly to get you child.

Each situation is different , dont knock it , enjoy what you have you are very lucky , I suggest you try and put yourself in other peoples situations before making some of these statements.

I was even prepared to give up work- not prepaid

B&WC, there are many men out there who enjoy having the standard male role of earning a being the sole provider for their family and there are many women who enjoy being the homemaker and mother, supporting their husband so that they can bring in the money. You ideal of mixed family/ work ratio of both parents is not the ideal of many.

I am very happy not to have to go out to work, be answerable to a boss etc. etc. I am very happy that I don't have to worry about bills, house repairs etc. etc. Infact I am glad that despite having a first class degree and having left a career I am now a full time mother.

b&WC said 'And finally for now, those of you who have said that I'm lucky with my circumstances I wonder if you would think that about my next door neigbour who worked as a dinner-lady druing all the years that her kids were at school. Therea re 1000s of men and women who do paid work around child-care (I know GPs, cleaners, teaching assistants, driving instructors and even a school head teacher). '

Your neighbour isn't the one on the forum who is debating this issue.

Re 100ss of other jobs that work around childcare -
GP - I failed A level biology so cant do that,
cleaner - that already thank you in my own home,
teaching assiatnt - love to do that have applied once for a job so did about 200 other mums ,
drving insytuctor - costs about £2500 to £3000 to tran as driving instructor so that has to be funded,yes you can get a career development loan , but then you have to pay it back ,along with franchise fees , unless you want to go alone and invest in a suitabel car etc etc - looked at that but too much of a finncail risk for us at the moment.

Head taecher - not qualified .

The issue about teenage mums not being a role model - thats a differnt debate .

There is nothing wrong with debate on SAHM v WOHM etc bit when someone turns round and says along the lines ' I think SAHM with children at school should go back to work and contribute to society like me, by the way I work school hours and have holidays off' , there is not much sympathy for your argument - we just think wooppee do lucky you !

Now back to the Sunday Papers for me I think....

BWC - had to laugh at your statement:

"Also, things were different even 20 years ago let alone 50+. There were less opportunities for women to work and women were not encouraged to aspire to university, paid work etc."

I think you'll find that there were plenty of women at university and in paid work in the 80s - I know, I was there

and, in fact, I think you'll also find that a woman was Prime Minister at that time - how's that for a role model?

not read the thread, but just wanted to add a point to consider, jeangenie if you are trying to make your decision.

If you do give up work now, it might in future years limit your job options, making it more difficult to find a job you really like with family friendly hours.

I have worked for most of the years since I left college (25 years ago) so can adapt my CV quite a lot. I wanted a career change 5 years ago and went from private sector advertising to public sector communications work. I think my varied work background helped this happen. The job I have now is much more child friendly with flexileave.

Now I am applying for jobs in Devon and again am realying on my past experience - both recent past and distant past. I have had interviews and been shortlisted for jobs, so hopefully I will be lucky.

Me doing this is helping the family much more than if I was a SAHM at the moment. And I couldn't have done this if I had not got the work experience. We want to be nearer my dh's mother and have better links with the rest of our extended family. I will be the main breadwinner when we move down, until dh finds a job, so everyone in the family is depending on me (gulp).

So, if you do give up work completely, do keep thinking of your CV and try and do some relevant courses - IME it may be of great benefit to your family in the future.

I also think you need to really consider the pressure you could be putting on your partner if they were to become the sole breadwinner. I really don't care if parents work or not but I do have issues with parents who quit their job and then watch their partner work 60-80hrs a week to sustain them.. I have seen this happen and let's just say it ended in tragedy.

If one parent stopping working means tightening your belt and shopping in Lidl rather than Tesco's then that fine and manageable but if it means that you cannot survive and you either get into debt or one parent works crazy hours then it's time for a rethink.

very true, drosophila. If you stop work it's so important to consider the impact on your dh or dp. Even if they say they are fine about working crazy hours for the forseable future, is this really going to be a good idea?

And also to be clear in your mind whether you are stopping work for a year or two or much longer - and make sure your dp or dh is as clear as you are about this. And talk about downsizing.

IME lack of a second income may not seem too much to bear at first, but fast track a few years and it becomes more and more of a financial pressure.

Please show me where I have knocked other peoples jobs. Please show me where I have judged. How many times do I have to say it? Whatever people want to do is just fine by me and everyone has to find their own way. I said mummydear's post raised an interesting point which it is. I wasn't knocking or judging her or anyone else. I wonder why some of you enter debate if you are going to get so easily offended, so defensive and go on the attack so easily.

'Do you really think you can give 100& to your career ?'

No. Would I want to regardless of whether I had children? No. Everyone is entitled to a life. Would you ask this question of a male teacher who was also a dad? Would anyone ever dream of implying that a man couldn't do his job properly because he was a dad?

'What happens when a parent wants to discuss an issue with you after school ? You are not there as you leave quickly to get you child.'

If you'd read my posts before making assumptions and judging me and my ability to do my job you would know that I work at a 6th form college. We rarely have parents wanting to talk to us after school. We have parents evenings and contact parents regularly. I have never and would never refuse to see a parent or do any other aspect necessary to fulfil my job properly.

And again, would you ask these questions to a male teacher who is also a dad? Many of my male colleagues (including my dp who picks up my other dd) have responsiblity for picking up children.

'B&WC, there are many men out there who enjoy having the standard male role of earning a being the sole provider for their family and there are many women who enjoy being the homemaker and mother, supporting their husband so that they can bring in the money'

Look, that's is fine. HOW MANY TIMES? WE MUST ALL DO WHAT WE WANT TO DO AND WHAT WORKS FOR US. This isn't what I want for myself that's all. And if you or anyone else is a SAHM because you want to be or because you want to put your and your family needs first at this point in your life or for your whole life that's just great. I'm happy for you if it makes you happy. I really am. But please just say that and be proud of it. Don't argue that you are contributing taxes or that you are doing something that benefits SOCIETY as a whole other than bringing up your kids which is what WOHMs are doing AS WELL as contributing taxes and/ or contributing in other ways.

Do I have to say all the usual provisos? Obviously it's different if you do voluntary work or whatever and I know you do. Or if your kids are pre-school or sick or you look after other depenents etc etc. Where's the controversy?

B&WC there's almost no point in keeping on saying that you're being nice because the thrust of alot of your posts simply isn't.

It isn't that people are taking needless offence. You do come across to me as a rather smug and self satisfied person. That is probably not what you intend but it is not simply a question of others misunderstanding your arguments.
For example to state on a number of occasions that sahms with school age children are not contibuting to society is going to make people angry.

B&WC said 'Would anyone ever dream of implying that a man couldn't do his job properly because he was a dad? '

Wouldn't question someones ability to do their job whether mum or dad but would question their ability if they had to rush off and collect children from school. My Dh did his fair share of picing up from day care nusery when I was working and that wa abttle at times getting out of central London to be at the nursery on time. So I would question a man on being able to do his job properly in this instance.

He couldn't turn round to say to work ' sorry can't go abroad next week to work on this important investigation as I have to pick up the children from day care' .