Why is it OK for dads to work fulltime, but less acceptable for mums to do it?

[hunkermunker]

That's it really. Just pondering it. I work four days a week (three weekdays, one weekend day).

And I've had surprised looks from people that I'm working so much. But I like my job, DS is happy with his grandparents for three days a week and his dad for the other.

And I was just wondering why people don't think it's odd that dads often don't take much time off after their baby's born (two weeks isn't much!) and then work five days a week. Nobody says to DH, "Aw, you must miss your DS" like they do to me - so why is this?

I don't want a debate about WOHM and SAHM - I know there are people who couldn't do whichever one they're not and have read all that before. I just wondered about the mum/dad working thing.

Yes....I have had it too. DH works flexi and takes the kids to school/nursery (and looks forward to it so he can flirt with the nursery teachers!) and everyone's impressed and they say he is just such a "family man". As far as I know noone has ever said I am a "family woman" eventhough I am daily seen to pick my children up from nursery.....My DH is also a "hands-on dad" and "a great help". "hands-on mum" anyone? he he.....

Absolutely. MY DH reckons that our SAHM friend(well TBH it's only the one who regularly gives her opinion) must be either jealous or uptight to be so opinionated on something that really is none of her business.

But I think it's more along the lines that someone posted earlier (sorry can't remember who): it's a lack of imagination and creativity to believe that other work/childcare options can be as effective and as beneficial for the child (if not more) than the classic dad works, mum stays at home option.

And although it hasn't been the best financial move we ever made, both DH and I are enjoying lots of quality time with our kids. If we followed the classic route of dad works/SAHM, he would be depressed from lack of time with his kids and I would slit my wrists from lack of intellectual stimulation.

Feel like victorian wife today and its a bit strange! i went back to work full time when dd was 6 months old. Dh was trying to set up own business from home so worked out well all round. I didnt have a prob going back to work as nursing is flexible and i always got home at good time etc. I really got back into being one of the team and had unconciously begun to plan my next career move. DH today tells me he has landed a great client and ill have to stop work so he can do his work. Dont get me wrong i love love love spending time with dd but its more the expectation from society as a whole that i as the woman would immediatley stop. that has made me think "oh".

BM - if I were you I'd tell him you both need to sit down and work out how you can both pursue your great career options and accommodate childcare too. Don't give up your work if you are enjoying it - why should you?

Well I agree with so many people on here, trying to remember who, expat, toothache, HM, and prettybird to name just a few.

I hate that children need their mothers thing, I have been SAHM for the last 18 months. Someone said it is about needing a good primary carer. Can be mother or father! I do think that it should be be your whole life!

Stay at home, go to work, whatever makes you happy and your wee one will be happy.

Plus, as many have said some people need to work and that should be respected.

oops, deleted half my post and dosn't make sense.

Second para should read.

I hate that children need their mothers thing, I have been SAHM for the last 18 months. Someone said it is about needing a good primary carer. Can be mother or father!And the why have children if you are going to leave them to go out to work thing? Em, maybe because you didn't have children to spend 24/7 with them. Children are your children all your life but they don't have to be your whole life!

Glad this has returned to the original question, which is one I think of whenever the SAH/WOH debates get going. Why should it be any one else's business what choices a family makes? If there is an unhappy person in the family, whether that is the child(ren), dad or mum then that's the time to offer suggestions about alternatives. We are all so very much different than this divided (apart from the fact that there are many permutations between the two).

I work full time, I do a job I enjoy which I think (hope!) brings some value to others (I work in the NHS). It earns me a living and gives me independance both of which turned out to be vital to me a few years down the line. I didn't enjoy maternity leave because I found I am not very good with babies, I got pregnant second time by accident, but never intended to have an only child, so would have gone through the baby thing anyway for the sake of my ds. Since then dh has been full time, part time and now a SAHD. My salary has made this possible without us going bust. For our family this has been a good thing. For my own sake I know I need to work, I am good at what I do, and I don't feel any great need to stop. My children appear happy and are doing well. End of story really.

I have never been asked why am I at work instead of looking after my babies because I work in an environment where this is common. Occasionally people tell me they admire me or ask how I manage. I say I have good childcare, or that the children have a dad who is at home. I can't see why I should be admired because I don't do anything extraordinary. Like many people I go to work, like most dads I try and be home to spend time with my children. I make sure I am focused on the children at week-ends. I have no "me" time, but I am happy with my life. Isn't that what matters?

Good question hunker. So to answer the question, "Why is it OK for dads to work fulltime, but less acceptable for mums to do it?"

1.Because looking after children isn't considered real 'work' if a mother does it. But OTOH if someone else does it is IS considered work and worth paying for. Or if a man does it even if that child is his, he is deemed to deserve a medal at the very least.
2.Everything Caligula and MI said. Just realised I'm too tired to be coherent. But some of it does boil down to the fact that many people don't consider being at home with children to be work because it supposedly isn't making an economic contribution. It is, of course but our society is set up to revere well paid work and the trappings that come with it and to sneer at anyone who doesn't buy into this and participate by treating paid work as more important than anything else. This whole thing pees me off - I posted this before but an HR woman who interviewed me recently asked who looks after my children during the week (I work away) - there is NO WAY she'd have asked my ex dh or dp this question, no way. We've a long way to go while childcare is still assumed in many cases to be womens stuff. I know I'm getting off the point a bit but the whole 'oh how could you do it stuff pees me off too. No-one ever asks men this.

Oh and I LOVED going back to work when dd was 4 months old.

Thanks wordsmith, i knew when i got pregnant with dd i would have to put ambition of being sister on hold for a few years as it has to be a full time thing, thinking about it i guess what has really peed me off is that if nurses were paid a better wage we could have come to another arrangement but thats another thread i guess grrrrrr

at this debate, it will rage forever more. However as someone who has experienced both sides of the fence I have to admit as a SAHM I am sick of having to 'justify' my choice to other mothers and almost apologise for the fact I do nothing else. I still believ that bringing up children is the most important job on the planet and doesn't get the recognition it deserves. God sometimes i hate it and am at my wits end, in fact noone ever recognises how hard i work every single bloody day. I am not smug about my choice-far from it, but I will not subscribe to the 'i have so much more to give' arguement banded around by my working mates. I also have alot to give and I choose to give it to my children. Wanted to use my parp at this thread because i hate seeing how SAHM are seen as smug particularly in this debate, if you are happy then live and let live

I'm priviledged enough to have met this one lady who's an incredible academic, and who in her job helps SO many people. She also has two lovely, well-adjusted, contended kids who would be any parents dream. She works outside the home. And I think, if she hadn't, all those people she helped and taught wouldn't have benefitted from all that amazing knowledge and experience she has to offer, from knowing what a beautiful person she is.

Her kids must think the world of her. And what an example! That women can achieve in any way they chose and it doesn't mean they're less of a mum, wife or person in any way.

I'm really glad we live in a world where people like that can go on contributing.

nicely put www. I wanted to add as well that part of the attitude that prevails is that being at home with children/not doing paid work is not and cannot be intellectually stimulating. which is just total bulls**t, it can be whatever you want to make it. But the assumption is very often (even on this thread) that being at home is deadly dull. Just about OK for women, but not acceptable for men. Capitalism and feminism.
actually www put it better.

Yes she does sound wonderful expat, but as a SAHm i am also incredibly academic and don't feel my kids should be any less proud of me because i am not in a career. I am an example to my kids because I am a nice person plain and simple.

Very true, mykids, but isn't it nice that we live in a world where BOTH options are possible?

Harpsi, I don't think anyone was actually saying being at home was always deadly dull, it just is for some people. I guess it depends on the type of person you are, and as TC said earlier, we're all different and some like it and some don't. No-one should have to justify it either way. but I do sometimes feel in my own personal situation that I have to justify why I don't want to spend every minute with my children, and to explain why this doesn't make me a bad mum - and I really don't see why I should! Perhaps when both my boys are in young offenders institutions in 10 years time I shall come back and recant.

Absolutely and actually quite envy the woman she sounds great!!

Haven't read the thread but IMO its because a lot of the time the Dad earns more than the Mum. Certainly the case in our household anyway. I could work and dh could look after the kids but we would struggle with money. So for me that makes it more acceptable for me to be a SAHM. If it was the other way round I would expect to work.

Blimey - thisis a heated one! I went back to work when dd was 16 weeks. I had to coz I had just taken a new job only to find out I was pregnant so had very little maternity leave rights. Regardless of that, I would have had to go back anyway as the main income earner and a £200k mortgage. No I don't live in a palace, just a modest 3 bedroom house. COuld we have moved to a cheaper area so I could have reduced my hours? Probably, but that would mean taking my kids away from the the other people they love to be around. dd has been with her auntie (childminder) for nearly 3 years now and 2 sessions at nursery since April. She's a well-adjusted, intelligent and loving child who adores allof us and we her.

TC didn't deserve the attack she got and whilst I think lovecloud's sentiments were taken in the wrong context (she was just saying she didn't understand how anyone could bear to leave their baby so early), to be so offensive is not on.

Oh and just to add, I personally have never comeacross anyone who in this day and age questions why women go back to work. I've come across people saying "poor you" and on both occasions it came from middle-aged women who were childless!

hi Wordsmith - it sounds like you had a bad day with the Smug SAHMs... I wasn't meaning anyone in particular but dear god do I ever hear it from WOHMs saying - god how boring, I would be crawling the walls, how do you manage without intellectual stimulation, adult conversation... etc etc. I think it is a widespread cultural assumption and it is damaging, IMHO, because it undervalues the work of looking after and bringing up children. (Hence pittance wage for childcare.)
I agree it is a matter of personal choice, but just suggesting that, to answer the original question, that it is part of the reason that it is culturally acceptable for women but not for men - it is not equally valued by society as a whole.

Does it depend what the job is/was? I know quite a few women who didn't want to go back to their jobs because they hated them, whereas I'm very lucky and do a job I really enjoy and I have brilliant colleagues (most of the time!).

I agree that earning power comes into it - DH and I earn a similar amount of money, so it's not really an issue - we just both have to be earning it in order to be able to afford to stay where we are (near our families - v important as DS is besotted with his grandparents!)

I'd love to know where this concept of a pittance wage for childcare comes from!

The last time I looked a qualified nanny in London is taking home at least £350 per week - hardly a pittance.

There is nevertheless a view that childcare is women's work (see the thread on would you employ a male nanny for evidence that even WOTH women think so) and for whatever reason, occupations which have high densities of women workers pay less money that male dominated ones!

Going back to the original question, I think the reason that people are surprised when women work full time is that very many women prefer not to and have campaigned long and hard for the right to flexible working. As such there is a view that if so many vocal women want flexible arrangements then all women must want them!

If you like women are not looked at as individuals exercising individual choices but as a herd all wanting and doing the same thing