Nurseries are ripping you off (top up/consumables)

[OPH7719]

Hello,

I'd like to debunk the myth that nurseries are underfunded. It's simply no longer true.

This article covers the changes in funding to childcare providers in broad detail - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/childcare-settings-receive-cash-boost-as-funding-rates-increase#:~:text=Nurseries%20and%20childminders%20across%20the,hour%20they%20provide%20to%20parents.&text=Nurseries%20and%20childminders%20will%20benefit,investment%20in%20childcare%20in%20England

This link will provide you with exactly what is being provided to your providers from the government per hour: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/656638f3750074000d1ded9a/20231127_Early_Years_Funding_Rates_and_Step-by-step_Calculations_2024_to_2025_Funding_Output_Tables_-_FINAL.xlsx

This is important because childcare providers are continuing to insist on charging additional fees listed as 'consumables' even when parents provide consumables directly.

These charges have always been optional, as they are mandated legally to be optional.

Stop appeasing these nurseries profiteering from what was supposed to be parent's savings. Just because you're "up" overall doesn't make it right for them to be stealing a piece of the pie - because they are doing just that - stealing.

There's no transparency in this industry. Call them out, and stop paying them these illegal fees. Report them to the local authorities if they insist.

Did you read my reply? Or are you selectively reading?

they profit from all ages less 3-4, considerably so.

Your link is wrong. That is what the LA is paid by the government to deliver the funding.

I will not be paid that amount by my local authority.

You are spreading incorrect information.

yes - they’ve been under funded in the past, hence why they charged top up fees.

I understand that.

thats no longer the case. Why are they still charging top up fees? Just read the rates - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/656638f3750074000d1ded9a/20231127_Early_Years_Funding_Rates_and_Step-by-step_Calculations_2024_to_2025_Funding_Output_Tables_-_FINAL.xlsx

Exactly what do you want me to do with that spreadsheet?

Rather than angrily spouting nonsense about being ripped off and pulling the calculations the DfE have used to justify badly designed policy (and it IS badly designed). Maybe you could actually listen to the industry about the challenges they face and the reasons why the funding is insufficient.

It’s not a scam or a conspiracy. It’s a sector suffering from years of really shite policy making.

I don't need to read your wrong information!

I’m not. That’s the breakdown per region, final published draft.

show me any document/article/proof where the LA are skimming off of it?

It’s not my information - it’s the governments.

Explain why providers continue to charge top up fees when they are no longer in a deficit.

simple

OP. I say this kindly. You really do not fully understand the funding or how the sector operates and its costs. You are outraged about something so don’t use the service. You have a choice. It’s not compulsory.

I managed nurseries for many years. Staff training costs money, equipment costs money, uniform costs money, I could go on and on. The hours are long and it's not easy providing high quality care plus all the paperwork, planning and prepping that needs doing. It's more than changing nappies shoving snacks down them and sticking them in front of a TV.

The funding doesn't touch the sides. Why are nurseries as a business not allowed to make a profit? Nobody gets into business to work for free. You wouldn't say the same about a lawyer.

OP you are the type of person who has kids and doesn't want to pay for care.

You sound awful.

What am I missing?

the funding is clear - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/656638f3750074000d1ded9a/20231127_Early_Years_Funding_Rates_and_Step-by-step_Calculations_2024_to_2025_Funding_Output_Tables_-_FINAL.xlsx

what providers charge is published in their costs.

they make more from funded than non funded, but still charge a top up.

this is fact. Tell me what I’m missing

You could start here with the government’s own guidance for LAs and the 5% they can ‘skim off’ and the local funding formulas they can devise

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-funding-2024-to-2025/early-years-entitlements-local-authority-funding-operational-guide-2024-to-2025

OP, Is that you Gillian Keegan?

this doesn’t remotely explain why providers are profiting on profit.

if you went to the cinema on a voucher that was worth £20, paid for the tickets and the food seperately. The tickets cost £14 but the cinema still wanted to charge you an extra £5 on top of your voucher and payment for food and listed it as “consumables”, despite providing nothing - would you be ok with that?

I suppose you're going to tell us state schools are overfunded too? What about hospitals? Are they swilling around in cash? Course they fucking are.

So much misunderstanding! The LA can only take 5% of the funding, max, so not sure where all these figures are coming from.

@lookwhatyoudidthere 🤣🤣🤣

That spreadsheet tells you absolutely nothing about the costs of running a childcare setting.

The thing about shouting about profit is that you actually need to think about all the costs - which clearly you are unwilling to do. You just want to say ‘oh, they’re going to get £11 for a baby - the profiteering bastards’ and aren’t actually considering: the on-costs for staff, the costs of annual leave for staff (and that includes the support staff you don’t even see), the costs of owning or renting a large building suitable for childcare, rates, the costs of food and materials (or the rate at which nurseries go through toys and books with such heavy use by small people), etc. Have you thought about the increases in minimum wage that nurseries have no control over?

But still, apparently a 50p and hour deficit even on the rose-tinted figures the DfE want to use is ‘profiteering’.

Have you properly considered the effects of the very different ratios (beyond just believing the DfE)? Have you considered that nursery staff are qualified professionals who are generally underpaid and often leave to go and work in other industries because the sector just cannot pay them appropriately?

Posting links to DfE spreadsheets and ignoring anything else is not proof that you’re right that the industry is profiteering from something that has yet to happen.

If you actually read this you’d understand it supports what I’m saying

I get 12.5% less than what is published in that table. The 5% is what they can take from the total rather than from each individual rate. Ours have chosen to keep SEN and school nursery funding higher and take more from the PVI sector.

Also, the way the LA works out their costs and allocation of the funding does not mean it is a straight 5% cut taken by the LA. Ie the provider does not directly receive 95% of the figure given to LA for each child, it is around 8% less in our area.

also not all nurseries take under 2’s. I agree that the rates are more generous and closer to the costs for under 2’s. But it is still up to each individual provider to set their costs. They may wish to pay their staff a fair wage for the actual (at times) shite job they have to do.

OP quite simply you are touting absolute rubbish and clearly have no idea how the systems all work.

The costs of running the business has nothing to do with this. You’re missing the point.

I understand it quite well, thank you. You do not understand how funding and the sector works. That is quite clear.

yeah rent and electric are free and haven’t gone up have they. Staff costs are also pennies and you don’t need more staff for 9 month olds.

Sorry I have to call bullshit on this one because I audited a lot of nurseries. They make a fucking fortune. But it’s those at the top who are taking the money.