Nurseries are ripping you off (top up/consumables)

[OPH7719]

Hello,

I'd like to debunk the myth that nurseries are underfunded. It's simply no longer true.

This article covers the changes in funding to childcare providers in broad detail - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/childcare-settings-receive-cash-boost-as-funding-rates-increase#:~:text=Nurseries%20and%20childminders%20across%20the,hour%20they%20provide%20to%20parents.&text=Nurseries%20and%20childminders%20will%20benefit,investment%20in%20childcare%20in%20England

This link will provide you with exactly what is being provided to your providers from the government per hour: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/656638f3750074000d1ded9a/20231127_Early_Years_Funding_Rates_and_Step-by-step_Calculations_2024_to_2025_Funding_Output_Tables_-_FINAL.xlsx

This is important because childcare providers are continuing to insist on charging additional fees listed as 'consumables' even when parents provide consumables directly.

These charges have always been optional, as they are mandated legally to be optional.

Stop appeasing these nurseries profiteering from what was supposed to be parent's savings. Just because you're "up" overall doesn't make it right for them to be stealing a piece of the pie - because they are doing just that - stealing.

There's no transparency in this industry. Call them out, and stop paying them these illegal fees. Report them to the local authorities if they insist.

See, this illustrates how backwards you’ve got it.

The actual situation would be that the government has decided that there will be a £14 voucher for cinema tickets. The industry has told them this rate is too low and doesn’t cover their £20costs. So they charge a £5 subsidy, still make a £1 loss and you’re framing this as ‘profiteering’.

The problem is the government has framed this all in misinformation that makes them sound benevolent.

It actually doesn’t though😂 if you knew the systems and how the LA’s work the figures out- you would know that often it comes out as much less than 95% being paid to the provider for each child!

of course it does
they need to cover their over heads, which will be higher in some areas than others.
your saying profit on profit.

but profit only comes once the over heads are paid.

fake news

Tells us all we need to know about this OP. Don't feed it.

Jesus wept.

The costs of running the business have nothing to do with whether nurseries are ‘profiteering’?

Well… did you know you can take free online qualifications that can help you to understand that profit is a calculation based on income relative to costs. Might be a good idea to take one rather than lecturing MNers on how the childcare industry is awash with government funding and making huge profits from
that.

Final published draft.... that the government guve LAs maybe.

Then LAs communicate to settings that they will have a consultation to decide how much the LA will be paying us. We aren't paid from central government. I don't even receive the same rate as the cm us the road due to being in different deprivation categories.

Honestly OP you're embarrassingly unknowledgable about this process.

This is what I received after that document you are sharing was published.

You’re only applying the cost of the person though. Business rates,, electric, health and safety, supplies etc cost money.

child minders are not profiteering. Some nurseries are. Some aren’t.

Quite apart from the funding rates, OP do you expect companies to not make a profit? Do you think people would put time and effort into running a business to not make any profit? Do you think anyone would bother to open and operate a nursery (or a shop, a hairdressers, a restaurant, a legal firm……) without the opportunity to turn a profit? Do you write angry posts about other services? I am curious why you think companies should not make a profit.

i think that maybe instead of gov saying we get 30 funded hours or so… it should be funded percentage per hour -
so as a pp mention she gets £1.55 less per hour, so on that case if we pay £1.55 per hour it’s still cheap childcare and the childminder is not underpaid. My LO not at funded age yet, and it’s a struggle but I would manage £1.55 per hour much easer! (Currently its works out more than £7 per hour)
maybe it could be means tested so those who can’t afford £1.55 could be fully funded or whatever ..
I don’t know I’m thinking out loud but I once had a nanny job for a family who had a free nanny on Fridays (because they had twins) then one day they decided it didn’t seem right because they could afford it so hired me the Fridays instead.

Also my nursery hourly rates are going up, for all ages, I think it helps make up the shortfall for funded hours.

i completely understand this, they try to cut costs wherever possible and are fully transparent about this.

its a struggle but worth it -I know my child is in the best care possible with the most wonderful staff so I have that peace of mind.

I think costs can very wildly depending on the structure of the nursery business. Eg smaller providers find it more difficult to operate at scale.

I thought this was interesting

amp.theguardian.com/money/2024/mar/12/private-nursery-chains-profits-england

Welcome to the site bunch of letters and numbers.

"How much do you make off of funded hours for 9-month-olds..."

Asking that without knowing it doesn't happen yet does kind of mean people are not going to view you as any kind of knowledgeable expert.

I suppose we're going to get this a lot with elections coming up.

I do know it doesn’t happen yet. I’ve mentioned in multiple responses it’s from April 24.

will nurseries be abolishing these illegal fees then?

Have you actually checked what “short fall” there is, or are you going off of what we are made to believe (from 2024)

They can turn a profit just fine, just not by stealing from their customers.

charge more for non funded hours and do it so it’s transparent and reflective of the service they offer, not hidden in nonsense fees

i know. The costs of running the business are not relevant. What’s relevant is what the business is charging customers in relation to non funded hours and top up fees for funded hours.

it’s a reason they’re illegal. Because it’s unethical

That screenshot means nothing.

my LA has published an article that reflects the exact funding the government has stipulated in the spreadsheet.

is this the new lie parents will be told - “what the government provide isn’t what er get?”

Sorry what? You want fee paying parents to subsidise the funded ones because the government funding is too low? Is that really what you’re saying should happen?

You’ve entirely missed the point.

I mean that's what used to happen everyone knew the babies helped fund the funded for preschoolers

It’s quite literally the truth. The government provide x amount to the LA in a bulk payment. The LA then decide how 95% of this is distributed to settings.

no. That’s not what I’m saying.

I want nurseries to charge fees that are transparent and reflective of their service - like in any other industry.

i don’t want nurseries to charge nonsense fees on top of a grant that more than covers the cost of what they would be charging less the grant.

it’s simple really. I think the existing model has been in place for so long people are used/happy with the scam.

Indeed. And now most children will get some funding the nurseries need to charge for consumables seeing as the funding isn’t enough. Interesting that the OP explicitly thinks that fee paying parents should subsidise the funded ones.

So you are actually arguing that parents who need more than 30 hours a week during time only should be paying more to subsidise the poorly thought out funding offer? Why should the people using FT or close to it places end up paying far more than they otherwise would so that the government can pretend there are ‘free’ places?

None of this is ‘stealing’. It’s the government making promises of ‘free’
childcare but not providing sufficient funding for it.

Maybe be angry at the government instead for announcing ‘free’ hours, electing to pay below cost rate for those hours and then blaming the providers for having to charge the additional fees. That is the problem.

OP I am disengaging. You are unwilling to learn. You do not understand things well and there is no obligation on you to use a nursery. Please don’t!