Male Carers at Nursery

[alison39]

Has anyone any experience of a male carer at nursery looking after their daughter? One has just started at my daughter's nursery and whilst i am absolutely fine with this, I am a little concerned about their policies over bathroom assistance, and the fact that he will be allowed to take girls to the toilet on his own, is this usual??? Would appreciate any thoughts, experience or comments.

Thanks

I wonder what the OP is going to do when her DD goes to Primary school where there might be male teachers, or secondary school, or god forbid if she gets a boyfriend or married to a man?

In real life I know a woman who is very well educated who hates the fact that her DDs (age 8 and 10) have to go to school where there are boys and there is one male teacher. She is very vocal and open about her displeasure at boys/men being in the school at all and she expressed her views directly to DW who was shocked as we have two DSs at the school.

She is an otherwise normal, married, white, middle class woman and holds no strong or obvious religious or cultural reasons for feeling this way - she is just irrationaly prejududiced against boys/men and believes they will cause her DDs harm just by being in their physical presence.

Am I the only person who doesn't quite believe the OP when she says that the nursery has taken her and other parents' concerns seriously and have now banned the male carer from toilet duty with female children? Surely that's discrimination (against the female staff who then are going to be stuck on loo duty more)

I don't. In fact nurseries have such cost pressures and difficulty organising staff shifts I would say it is impossible for them to comply with ths request.

It would lay them open to a sex discrimination claim anyway - because in effect the nursery would be saying ' we dont trust this employee because he is a man so we treat him differently to the the female staff'.

forget the "statistics" - look at the number 60 girls,amd 40 boys out of 100 will suffer sexual abuse. 600,000 girls v 400,000 boys out of a million. .........

Just because some men abuse children, should not mean that all men get labeled as potential abusers.
Women abuse children too, so all women are potential abusers.
Female abuse of children goes under reported - Michele Elliott of Kidscape has a book on the subject, rather old book now but may be available still. Worth a read by anyone interested in abuse statistics. Female abuse cases which do get reported are considered by the experts in the field to be the tip of the iceberg. How big that iceburg is no one knows.

In childcare, everyone is considered to be a potential abuser and thus undergoes a certain level of background checks and in group care settings people will be observed and avoid being in situations where they are alone with a child.
However parents moan about nursery fees, so many nurseries run at minimum staffing levels, so children being alone with a staff member is more likely to occur.

Today so far I have changed a girls nappy and a boys nappy. It's part of my job. While some parents would not have a male nanny, others are happy to consider it. When I last looked for a job (about 3 years ago now, as tend to stay with families quite a long time) opposition was from Fathers not mothers, according to the agency I use. Mums would love the idea but convincing their DP/DH was another matter.

I would just like to know if the OP would object to a female nursery worker wiping the bottom of a DS if she had one.

Some people really are so ridiculous.

ahhh nannynick - if I had the money for a nanny I think I'd rather like to have a man. And no it's not because I have boys and wouldn't want a woman looking after them. It's because I've seen what a positive influence the (sadly limited number) of male staff at the DS's infant and junior schools has had on them.

My DD goes to a nursery and they have the MOST FANTASTIC male nursery worker who, in fact, won Trainee of the Year for 2010. He's an excellent carer and the kids love him. I have no hesitation about him looking after my daughter (he changed nappies for her when she was younger too). Just because he's male, it does NOT mean he's a paedophile!

It's no bloody wonder that there is a shortage of male teachers at an infant level and male nursery workers given the assumption of paedophilia. What a bloody shame!

"if I had the money for a nanny I think I'd rather like to have a man."

There's a family in our apartment block who have a "manny". It's the talk of HK as so unusual here .

Hello People,

Whilst not a Mum I heard about this thread and all of the false information posted. I am a qualified male nursery nurse who is also a student children's nurse. I am also in the late stages of Ofsted registration and specialise in special needs.

As such I have lots of experience. Firstly I will start with the facts:

The majority of women and men who work with children do so with the best intentions.

Children have the right to have all of their care needs met including toileting.

For these needs to not be met would summount to abuse.

Although statistics show that there have been more reported cases of abuse to female children evidence shows that abuse of males is significantly undereported due to late reporting and the unhelpfull stereotypes society puts on males as being the ones who don't tell and who need to be strong.

Children gain their perspectives and views from their parents/main care givers.

If you focus all your attention on males being a greater risk and women beig safe(r) then you actually are decreasing your child's resillience to reporting abuse by females. Due to societies nature of doing this and a general feeling of 'a women wouldn't do that' even though we actually know they do we are putting children at more risk.

All child protection training I have been on has suggested that children be taught the correct terminoligy for genitalia. I have heard some absolutely ridiculous words used e.g. flower. If a child were to make a disclosure to someone who is not a parent this might be missed.

Child protection is a 2 way process, it involves protecting both, children and also the adults caring for them from false allegation.

There is no law stating that men or women must be supervised when performing care. The law does state that we should take reasonable steps to ensure all children are kept safe from harm. With regards to toileting the 'reccomendation' is that it is done in a open environment. If this means the doors are open, fine. We as a staff team would just say to another staff member where we were going and with who.

With regards to healthcare, I can guarantee that in the UK there is NO law that states male healthcare professionals have to have chaperones. It is best practice in order to protect the male but not law. A patient is allowed however to request a female chaperone and where this is reasonably possible this must be arranged in line with 'Patients choice'

Now for the subjective bit,
I am proud to be studying children's nursing and can quite happily say I deserve to be where I am (35 places on course and over 1200 applicants, predicted 1st Honours Degree). I on a regular basis provide personal care (bathing and toileting) for a children both male and female of all ages. Children need this care so I give it. If an older child said they would prefer someone else to help them I would do my best to arrange that. With older females for my own protection I would ask either another member of staff (male or female) or a parent to be there.

Older children develop body conciousness and therfore should be able to make decisions about who does what with regards to there body (so long as it is in their best interests) Younger children should be taught about thier bodies and that they should tell a parent or someone they trust if anyone does something that upsets or worries them. They should also be taught about privacy and that we need to wear clothes etc. We should not take it to the extreme though that children become ashamed of their bodies as it is shown that this can increase the likelyhood of mental health issues.

With regards to CRB checks - totally pointless and not worth the paper they are written on as they are out of date as soon as they are issued, hence I have about 6 (one for each job)

More and more children are being brought up by single mothers and these children need positive role models both boys and girls. Yet society stands at risk of putting men of with their predjudices and stereotypes.

I tell all my customers (within my self employed work) they should make as many checks on me as they like and provide them with multiple references. I would say quite happily I don't want you to employ me because you cant find anyone else I want you to employ me because you recognise I am the best at what I do and this has been recognised by multiple people including schools who have actually head hunted me.

Dont let your pedjudices put children at risk, instead remember that an abuser can be male or female, they dont all wear anoraks, it is most likely to be a family member or family friend. Teach children that there bodies belong to them and they can say who does what. Don't tell them not to let men toilet them etc. as you instantly put accross the message that women can do what they like.

I hope my response has come accross as objective, informative and nobody feels brow bashed. After my friend telling me about this post I felt it my duty given my experience (including the handling of child protection cases) to respond.

I do hope you all have a good weekend,

Grant

excellent post grant

My DD's nursery has several young men on staff. I must admit to a feeling of when I first met them, but only because it is unusual for men to work with small children. The kids adore them.

The toilet at nursery has a permanently open door, and the cubicles are small enough that adults can see in IYSWIM. I've noticed all the carers tend to take children en masse in the main.

Similarly the nappy rooms in the toddler area have a glass panel in the door so anyone in there can be seen.

The cases of abuse in the news have been horrifying (and have been women) but I'm confident that the set-up at our nursery would make it very difficult for anyone to take a child off on their own and not be seen.

Having said that, I don't think male carers are any more "unsafe" than female, and it is nice for the children to have a balance. My DD has grown-up brothers so she always makes a beeline for young men because she feels comfortable with them .

He's not just 'any' man - he would have gone through all the neccessary checks to ensure that he was able to change nappies/ look after the children etc. As we've seen in the news over the last few years women are just as capable of being paedophiles. I can understand that the thought of a man taking your daughter to the toilet may have caught you off guard - perhaps you weren't expecting a male to be working in a predomenantly female setting. However, like the others have said - would you have an issue with a female member of staff wiping your sons bottom? if not, why? and how about a lesbian member of staff wiping your daughters bottom? or a man wiping your sons bottom? would that be a problem? I'm just trying to make a point that whether male/ female/ whatever they're not just any old person off the street - of course you wouldn't go to a public toilet and say "oh sorry, i just need to make a phonecall, could you take my daughter for a poo?" - that's the difference - yes, he may be a man but he's a man working in a nursery - he obviously cares for the children and has undergone all the neccessary checks and should be allowed to do all aspects of his job.